• riodoro1@lemmy.world
    1391·
    3 months ago

    Later after you turn down this very generous offer.

    „How can you bring such shame to me, ive already told him you’ll do it”

    • Spendrill@lemm.ee
      37·
      3 months ago

      Some decade and change ago I used to sell people Drupal installs at £200 a pop. They’d get a pretty secure codebase, the ability to add content through a gui and if necessary have customer accounts.

      Pretty much what killed it as a business was everyone expected to be on the first page of Google because business advisers were telling them that sitebuilders should do SEO as standard.

  • Knasen@lemmy.world
    115·
    3 months ago

    I got something similar in a requirement specification once:

    “Resolution supported: Max” “OS support: The latest one”

    🤦🏼

  • notaviking@lemmy.world
    1115·
    3 months ago

    I would take the $500 upfront and just log in to Squarespace or whatever website building service there is, do a simple design, tell him he needs to pay this subscription, argue with him and dad why there must be monthly or annual fees and they could have done this themselves for cheaper, whichever way they chose to pay the subscription or not I still get $500 for 2 hours work and the knowledge my father won’t bother me again with website designs

    • Mango@lemmy.world
      5·
      3 months ago

      For $500 I’d slap together some fitting WordPress stuff to suit their subject matter and teach them about domain registry and hosting. Then I’d tell them to come back to me with more if they’re interested in any specific features they’re not interested in implementing themselves later.

      $500 is worth a little bit of work and I can give them a product that’s as aimless as their ambition for it. They certainly can’t get more than they’re asking for if they don’t know what to ask for.

    • Synnr@sopuli.xyz
      22·
      3 months ago

      Chances are this is a kid or NEET and all his friend wants is a super simple website with basic info for his local business. Dad is either doing him a favor, or giving him some pocket change so he’ll stop bothering him for money for a month. This is what happens when you don’t teach your children to be adults, and give them everything instead. Seen it too many times.

      • notaviking@lemmy.world
        1·
        3 months ago

        Yeah true, many examples could bee true, like the kid could even be a prick and this could be for his buddy that needs a cancer donation page, Like this one.

        I could not know, nor can you, due to the limited information we received, I made up a scenario and you made up a scenario. I think chances, like you mentioned in the start, are neither of us being correct or incorrect, we both are just talking around Schrodinger’s website

  • Molten_Moron@lemmings.world
    952·
    3 months ago

    £500 gets you a sit down meeting and a website design drawn in crayon on a napkin.

    While we’re there, we can also talk about the cost for website development and why you shouldn’t talk to dad about websites ever again.

        • JDubbleu@programming.dev
          91·
          3 months ago

          Should be at least double in the US since it would be consultancy work which brings higher taxes (1099 vs W2) and no benefits. A $500 full day consultation is super cheap.

  • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
    722·
    3 months ago

    Being a salesman must be so easy. Scam the customer, scam the people actually putting the thing together, scam the business itself

    The United Scams of Assholes.

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
    672·
    3 months ago

    My dad asked me if I could build a site for him. I tried, but ultimately didn’t have the chops (I can customize Wordpress, but this was supposed to be from scratch and I didn’t keep up when things like CSS came into being; old). I sent him to hire an outside party.

    Here’s the thing: he wanted his menus vertical on the left side. I told him that’s not how it should be done; they should be at the top. But he was adamant. Later, he told me that his web consultant shop had also said the same. It’s the only time he ever said, “you were right,” about anything like in my entire life. Not that he was an asshole (though he really was when I was growing up). It’s just not something he said. And no one can take that from me. I even called my mom and told her.

    • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
      23·
      3 months ago

      And now… Lots of websites with menus on the left!

      Still, happy for you that your dad could humble himself to you. That’s really hard for some people, even when they’d like to, it’s like your brain just won’t compute how to say it without coming out wrong so you never say it.

    • ShortFuse@lemmy.world
      7·
      3 months ago

      Your dad is right. On desktop, navigation is on the left. On tablet, you shrink it to a rail. On mobile it should be a dismissible nav drawer.

      The top menus, especially the flyover(on mouse hover), are bad for accessibility because they convert a non-committal action (hover) to a context changing one (focus). It’s a uniquely web-only invention and thankfully falling out of usage. (Unless you mean menubar/toolbar. Those are fine but extremely rare on Web.)

    • ulterno@lemmy.kde.socialEnglish
      22·
      3 months ago

      I don’t get it.

      We have only 1080px in vertical, part of which is also used for Taskbars, titlebars and toolbars in most cases. Then there is this trend of sites not using most of the horizontal space for main body text.
      So, what reason do we have to not use the wasted side-space and instead congest the already low vertical space?

      I would understand if it were a mobile-only site or if you were explicitly talking about the vertical version of it, but even for 4:3, I won’t consider a sidebar to be a bad idea, unless perhaps, it was German.

  • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
    59·
    3 months ago

    Geez… Project managers are forbidden from making work estimates- they only get to collect them.

    They don’t get to argue estimates either. They can ask questions to gain understanding but the estimates are the estimates.

    Wearing an architect or chief engineer hat is sometimes more fun because you get to call bullshit on dumb estimates like “4 to 5 weeks to model a table with 7 fields, with 2 of them being PK, FK” like GTFO we can model it in the next 5 minutes if I talk slowly.

    • Synnr@sopuli.xyz
      71·
      3 months ago

      Based on this interaction alone and his dad deciding the price for him, I’m going to make the wildly assumptious assumption this is a 20s/30s(/40s?) unemploymed guy living at his dad’s house rent free.

      If my assumptions are incorrect, sorry mate, you did not win the dad lottery.

    • Xanis@lemmy.world
      72·
      3 months ago

      I’m still not sure exactly what Project Managers do. I’ve seen countless job postings and even stories from people claiming to have been one. Yet, more often than not they get shit on, and memes often have a kernel of truth. #ConfusedHumanPerson

      • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
        8·
        3 months ago

        Good ones are pretty rare and good program managers are even rarer.

        What they should do, and what most actually do, are different things.

        Project managers must be great with humans and communication. If they are not, then they just can’t be effective.

        • Xanis@lemmy.world
          1·
          3 months ago

          Oooh. Okay yeah, that explains it. Communication is the number one thing that most people struggle with. I’m constantly pestering my bosses about communicating even slightly important information that could affect me a rung down. Then even when it is reported it isn’t effective or concise, or if it is concise it’s unclear.

          Okay. I’m beginning to get a grasp on it.

      • Dave.@aussie.zone
        91·
        3 months ago

        They are supposed to be the glue that binds the internal team together as well as bonding to external groups.

        The project manager organises external requirements and steers the project in the direction needed for the business. That direction might change depending on the status of other projects, it’s their job to be on top of that.

        They also report progress and roadblocks upstream so that those who manage groups of related projects can work on keeping everything running.

        Whether they’re actually competent, well that’s something else entirely.

        • xthexder@l.sw0.com
          8·
          3 months ago

          Exactly this. You don’t realize how useful they are until you’ve had a good one. The amount of BS from other teams they can shield you from can make focusing on your own job so much easier.

          Unfortunately the ratio of good to bad PMs leaves a lot to be desired.

      • trolololol@lemmy.world
        4·
        3 months ago

        Many roles main responsibility is to report upwards what happens in"the basement". Which includes translating what one person says into that the other can understand. Then there’s roles that do it both ways.

        If there’s time to spare, a good project manager can also bring health and common sense to the team they’re part of. That takes pointing out non sense both inside and outside the team, and the hardest part - being constructive about it.

        • Xanis@lemmy.world
          4·
          3 months ago

          So essentially taking complex ideas or situations and breaking them down a’la eli5 style to the suits and other personnel that may not otherwise understand. At the same time in other situations or roles, taking expectations and directives from higher up and breaking them down so they’re digestible and workable.

          Man, these job descriptions really makes it sound like you’re going to be doing incredibly complicated and potentially invasive team-to-team tasks. When in reality you’re trying to get a bunch of cats to work together without slapping one another.

      • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
        3·
        3 months ago

        If the timing is critical then the only reasonable solution is to cut scope and features until it fits.

        The triangle isn’t a rubbery floppy thing, it is iron!

        • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
          1·
          3 months ago

          They fully subscribed to the mythical man month. So they just threw bodies at it and then couldn’t understand why the project got slower.

          • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
            2·
            3 months ago

            I don’t understand your statement. The Mythical Man Month teaches exactly that lesson of more bodies != Faster in many cases.

            How long to build the site with 1 full stack dev? 1.5 years.

            How long with an existing high performance team of 5? 2 months.

            How long if you hire 4 plus the one original (all qualified)? 1 to 1.5 years.

            How long if we hire 30 full stack devs? Maybe never.

            • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
              1·
              3 months ago

              Poorly worded on my part.

              They fully bought into the idea of the man-month without realising it was mythical.

              • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
                2·
                3 months ago

                You know? I literally figured that out a minute before I saw your reply. And I rolled my eyes at myself.

                That makes sense. Silly me

                Cheers

    • Buttons@programming.devEnglish
      2·
      3 months ago

      I like to put my estimates in writing somehow.

      “My initial and unbiased estimate is 3 months.” Put it in an email, nothing will ever change the fact that my initial estimate was 3 months.

      • MechanicalJester@lemm.ee
        1·
        3 months ago

        Ideally your estimates would just be complexity points. And those estimates would go on on the stories in Jira/Azure Dev Ops / wherever

        And honestly the team should meet up and discuss the estimates

    • toofpic@lemmy.world
      71·
      3 months ago

      Could be a “You can’t let John down now, we’re old pals, and a few people expect the site to work by the end of the week. He just needs a site like Facebook, but for gardeners”

      • AggressivelyPassive@feddit.de
        22·
        3 months ago

        Even just an afternoon of CSS would mean 2-4 hours, plus setting everything up, plus talking to the client, revisions, etc. You’ll quickly end up with 10h overall, even if the actual task is rather small. And that’s the optimistic case.

        So you’ll end up with maybe 50€/h , probably more like 30. Not terrible, but that’s the optimistic case.

  • magikmw@lemm.ee
    13·
    3 months ago

    I mean, I’d contact the guy and say upfront what 500 quid will get him.

    But I appreciate the PM joke.

  • Snapz@lemmy.world
    116·
    3 months ago

    If he was serious, your dad seems like a prick that sees you as an appendage that he owns…

    This seems as good an opportunity as any to tell him to go fuck himself and learn some boundaries - not sure if you need to hear this, but blood doesn’t get a pass just for being blood. Make ALL the people in your life earn their place there by treating you decently.

    • Red_October@lemmy.world
      162·
      3 months ago

      Woah buddy, you’re at about a 9, we need you down at a 3.

      “Dad” doesn’t know anything about web design, but he knows (presumably son) makes them, and he ballparked a number making the entirely common armature mistake of thinking it’s as easy as setting up your facebook page. He’s also not demanding anything here. Nothing about this exchange suggests that “Dad” was going to require that the work be done at the stated price. It seemed like

      Maybe before you go burning bridges and obliterating a family relation, consider how much easier it is to tell “Dad’s Buddy” that while Dad was well meaning, he was way off, and Buddy is free to compare with other estimates, but $X is actually a much more reasonable value.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
        48·
        3 months ago

        You’re not, OP…

        also, feels pretty obvious you haven’t been involved in bidding jobs before - these initial numbers set expectations. If “dad” valued the kid’s talent and time, he would have said, “they’ll give you a number” and/or the message to kid would not have been closed, it would have been open. So instead of, “you’ll do this, thanks bye” it would be a question to kid prior saying, “I know a lot goes into your work, is $500 a good ballpark to give my friend for something like this?”

        It’s about expectations and entitlement - you’re essentially my property, so I decided it would be this is indicative of a problem with “dad’s” approach.