Israel isn’t mass murdering Palestinian children. They’re bombing Hamas terrorists, who are using children as human shields. That is 100% on the terrorists.
And that’s not even fully confirmed yet. Some doubts are still in the air such as the direction of shrapnel being from the North-East and the “Hamas Audio” was proven doctored.
To my understanding, said audio “doctoring” is consistent with splicing multiple sources together. Which… makes sense if multiple people were tapped. Same with enhancing audio so it is… audible.
But yeah. We are well into “crisis actor” and “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams” territory. And we will never leave it short of definitive proof that Netanyahu drove the bomb over himself.
Which is why there is a push to remind people: Hamas is a horrifically evil terrorist group with a LONG history of atrocities.
Which, just because people are stupid, does not mean that Mossad and the IDF aren’t ALSO an evil terrorist group for all intents and purposes.
From a quick google, the top result regarding the dialogue discrepancy is Al Jazeera. And, much like with the BBC and other state funded news networks: Take everything they say about their own government’s interests with a massive grain of salt. I have yet to find any cited sources on the dialect claim, but it is also worth understanding that we already know Iran is (allegedly) involved and terrorist groups in neighboring countries have been taking advantage of the chaos. So for the splinter group that allegedly did this to have people who don’t speak with a perfect Gaza dialect is not a smoking gun.
Do you have a solid resource regarding the dialect claims? Would be curious in reading more.
For what its worth, Bellingcat is generally a pretty good “popular science” source for topics like this. And while they have yet to formally come down on one side or another, their initial findings are consistent with it not being Israeli JDAMs and did not dispute claims that the attack “came from within Gaza” https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/10/18/identifying-possible-crater-from-gaza-hospital-blast/
But also: “there’s evidence against both sides and both sides have lied. We don’t know wtf happened” is exactly what I am talking about. We have “people” speculating about dialects. As opposed to multiple governments (not just the US slobbering all over that circumcised winky) increasingly acknowledging that it appears to not be the IDF and news outlets retracting their claims.
They have yet to formally come down on one side or another, their initial findings are consistent with it not being Israeli JDAMs and did not dispute claims that the attack “came from within Gaza”
Yeah it probably wasn’t a JDAM, those seem waaay too powerful. Here’s a source associated with the University of London. They also haven’t made a definite conclusion but they said it came from Israel and also the crater lined up with artillery. You can read about their findings here. https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414
Do you have a solid resource regarding the dialect claims? Would be curious in reading more.
Other than Al-Jazeera no, and I agree that it isn’t the best source. I know an international student from my uni that agrees but again that isn’t a solid source, just a dude.
As opposed to multiple governments (not just the US slobbering all over that circumcised winky) increasingly acknowledging that it appears to not be the IDF and news outlets retracting their claims.
I mean idk, there hasn’t been proof provided (a clip from a phone call that is disputed is pretty much it), so I don’t think its reasonable for anybody to make a definitive conclusion yet. I do think it is good that news places are retracting their claims, because again there isn’t enough info.
Ignoring all of the IDF/USA and Hamas/PIJ claims, all I’ve seen is: Crater and doppler analysis shows it came from Israel (direction wise), and the crater shows the same. The crater lines up with artillery or a rocket, but not a JDAM. Hamas rockets have misfired before, Israel warned the hospital to evacuate and also hit the same hospital with a rocket a few days earlier. Someone (hamas or pij) was launching rockets near the hospital around that time, but we can’t see any rockets turning around in the air and going northeast.
Adding to what everyone else said there’s telling people to evacuate to certain locations and then bombing them, bombing evacuating trucks full of mostly women and children (who can’t be Hamas fighters) and using white phosphorus.
So what you’re saying is noone is allowed to talk about the terrible things Hamas do, it’s only ok to talk about the terrible things Israel do? Any time someone says Hamas did a bad thing people like you immediately point to Israel and say “what about them”.
It is more that, over the past few weeks, all the major talking points have been “did Hamas rape that specific woman” or “did Hamas decapitate that baby or just set it on fire and kick it around a bit” and so forth. And, regardless of what actually happened with that hospital, “the entire world” is going to always assume it was Israel.
This is an attempt to point out how incredibly stupid all that was. because maybe Hamas raped the woman they stripped beat, and maybe killed (have we heard anything since her mother claimed she was in a hospital?). They definitely have raped plenty of other women. Maybe Hamas decapitated those babies and maybe they just burned them alive and desecrated their corpses. But they have decapitated plenty of other babies and people. And so forth
Which is less about “Well, the IDF is justified for all their crimes against humanity now” and more “Well. Both sides are pretty evil and I guess this is a war?”
This is some serious whataboutism. Yeah, we know Hamas does this but that doesn’t make it ok to do what Israel is doing either.
Unfortunately, some observers are casting doubts on the Hamas atrocities.
That being said, I agree entirely that this is just a deflection attempt from Israel.
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Israel isn’t mass murdering Palestinian children. They’re bombing Hamas terrorists, who are using children as human shields. That is 100% on the terrorists.
Don’t swallow the whole hook, it makes it difficult to get out.
Fuck, man, a genocide doesn’t have to be the fucking Holocaust to be bad.
Yeah, the Germans skipped the decades and decades of a apartheid regime and skipped straight to open genocide after a handful of years of oppression.
Clearly Israel should have listened better to how to get rid of the untermench living among them. /S
I see we’ve moved from appeal to emotion and whataboutism to Motte and Bailey, might I suggest an appeal to ignorance next.
Just like the hospital strike initially was, before it turned out they did that themselves. The deflection wars started have.
Correction: They didn’t do it themselves. It was a misfire by Islamic Jihad.
And that’s not even fully confirmed yet. Some doubts are still in the air such as the direction of shrapnel being from the North-East and the “Hamas Audio” was proven doctored.
To my understanding, said audio “doctoring” is consistent with splicing multiple sources together. Which… makes sense if multiple people were tapped. Same with enhancing audio so it is… audible.
But yeah. We are well into “crisis actor” and “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams” territory. And we will never leave it short of definitive proof that Netanyahu drove the bomb over himself.
Which is why there is a push to remind people: Hamas is a horrifically evil terrorist group with a LONG history of atrocities.
Which, just because people are stupid, does not mean that Mossad and the IDF aren’t ALSO an evil terrorist group for all intents and purposes.
People said the dialect is off in the audio, and it sounds staged.
I don’t think we’re in conspiracy theory territory, there’s evidence against both sides and both sides have lied. We don’t know wtf happened.
From a quick google, the top result regarding the dialogue discrepancy is Al Jazeera. And, much like with the BBC and other state funded news networks: Take everything they say about their own government’s interests with a massive grain of salt. I have yet to find any cited sources on the dialect claim, but it is also worth understanding that we already know Iran is (allegedly) involved and terrorist groups in neighboring countries have been taking advantage of the chaos. So for the splinter group that allegedly did this to have people who don’t speak with a perfect Gaza dialect is not a smoking gun.
Do you have a solid resource regarding the dialect claims? Would be curious in reading more.
For what its worth, Bellingcat is generally a pretty good “popular science” source for topics like this. And while they have yet to formally come down on one side or another, their initial findings are consistent with it not being Israeli JDAMs and did not dispute claims that the attack “came from within Gaza” https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/10/18/identifying-possible-crater-from-gaza-hospital-blast/
But also: “there’s evidence against both sides and both sides have lied. We don’t know wtf happened” is exactly what I am talking about. We have “people” speculating about dialects. As opposed to multiple governments (not just the US slobbering all over that circumcised winky) increasingly acknowledging that it appears to not be the IDF and news outlets retracting their claims.
Yeah it probably wasn’t a JDAM, those seem waaay too powerful. Here’s a source associated with the University of London. They also haven’t made a definite conclusion but they said it came from Israel and also the crater lined up with artillery. You can read about their findings here. https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414
Other than Al-Jazeera no, and I agree that it isn’t the best source. I know an international student from my uni that agrees but again that isn’t a solid source, just a dude.
I mean idk, there hasn’t been proof provided (a clip from a phone call that is disputed is pretty much it), so I don’t think its reasonable for anybody to make a definitive conclusion yet. I do think it is good that news places are retracting their claims, because again there isn’t enough info.
Ignoring all of the IDF/USA and Hamas/PIJ claims, all I’ve seen is: Crater and doppler analysis shows it came from Israel (direction wise), and the crater shows the same. The crater lines up with artillery or a rocket, but not a JDAM. Hamas rockets have misfired before, Israel warned the hospital to evacuate and also hit the same hospital with a rocket a few days earlier. Someone (hamas or pij) was launching rockets near the hospital around that time, but we can’t see any rockets turning around in the air and going northeast.
Not really a source but as an Arabic speaker it does sound off. This is not how Palestinians speak.
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War crimes, lots of them.
Adding to what everyone else said there’s telling people to evacuate to certain locations and then bombing them, bombing evacuating trucks full of mostly women and children (who can’t be Hamas fighters) and using white phosphorus.
So what you’re saying is noone is allowed to talk about the terrible things Hamas do, it’s only ok to talk about the terrible things Israel do? Any time someone says Hamas did a bad thing people like you immediately point to Israel and say “what about them”.
Your hypocrisy is astonishing.
Holy projection, batman!
Not really.
It is more that, over the past few weeks, all the major talking points have been “did Hamas rape that specific woman” or “did Hamas decapitate that baby or just set it on fire and kick it around a bit” and so forth. And, regardless of what actually happened with that hospital, “the entire world” is going to always assume it was Israel.
This is an attempt to point out how incredibly stupid all that was. because maybe Hamas raped the woman they stripped beat, and maybe killed (have we heard anything since her mother claimed she was in a hospital?). They definitely have raped plenty of other women. Maybe Hamas decapitated those babies and maybe they just burned them alive and desecrated their corpses. But they have decapitated plenty of other babies and people. And so forth
Which is less about “Well, the IDF is justified for all their crimes against humanity now” and more “Well. Both sides are pretty evil and I guess this is a war?”