I keep seeing this question and I’m in disbelief anyone is actually parroting this in good faith.
Not genocide? Can they not do genocide? There are a million different options to combat terrorism but right wing governments only know how to send in shock troops into civilian populations. Just because these assholes are assholes doesn’t mean this is the only option.
Preface: I do not know enough of this subject or conflict to speak authoritatively.
If they were told to leave their homes and take a certain path to avoid being bombed, trusted that advice but were bombed on the “safe” path anyway by the very people who told them they would be safe if they took said path, why should they continue to trust whoever told them that?
Furthermore, if there were bombs dropping on and/or around you no matter what you did or who you listened to, simply for existing in the wrong place and at no fault of your own, wouldn’t you rather at least be in the “comfort” of your own home?
How do you know this? Is it from the say people who said their was a hospital bombing ? They lie about everything. I’m not saying I know for sure but I am skeptical. It is possible some people were bombed but there are many many people who evacuated to the South
Because pals always lie, because all these Arab countries are propaganda regimes. They had hamas spokespeople on CNN and BBC saying things like civilians are were not targeted on 10/7. They tell the most ridiculous lies. Do you you also think North Korea are not liars, do you Believe the North Korean dictator for 18 holes in one at golf?
Great job on stereotyping an entire population of peoples as liars. 👍
And downplaying the loss of innocent lives to boot.
It is “possible” that some were bombed? I guess as long as only some innocent people were bombed everything is ok. After all “many many” were safely uprooted from their homes and evacuated south. Hooray…
I doubt this will sink in but I have to try. There have definitely been innocent lives lost from both sides of this conflict and every one of them is a tragedy. I’m not advocating for either side here because everyone involved in the loss of innocent lives sucks. I don’t have a magical solution either so don’t bother asking. Innocent people have already, and will continue to die in this conflict. Don’t try to make it seem like innocent casualties aren’t a big deal.
Hamas has vowed for eternal war, they are fascists who say they will not accept Israel existence in any capacity. They start wars make all these threats and then when they die they go ‘oh look at the children’. A person with morals and strong intellect.can see they of course.these evil people will lie and flail in every disingenuous way. Truly disgusting people, threaten genocide all die and cry about any steps taken against them. The other Arab countries are much more severe with dissidents, they understand the mentality better
B) Israel isn’t committing genocide. If they were honestly attempting genocide right now, they’d provably be so laughably bad at it that no one should fear it
They are mowing them down en masse though. The reason more haven’t been killed is because they have shelters and tunnels to protect from the strikes. They have leveled whole villages, apartment towers holding hundreds of people, and struck routes specifically designated by the IDF as safe avenues for people to escape. The number killed is likely much higher than the reports we have seen, like after an earthquake or other disasters there are hundreds of people labeled ‘missing’ until they are more certain they are deceased.
“…inside and outside of Palestine” in case you thought this was just about Israel/Palestine and not about genocide against Jews. Keep in mind these people think all of Israel is Palestine.
These are bad people and you’re dumb for supporting them.
If someone argument is: they warn them, even though there are pictures of convey leaving an area getting bombed, or death numbers, in non hamas areas, west bank, has sky rocketed, you can tell they don’t care about human dying, they just want to win an argument over the internet.
They bomb where there are terrorists and there are definitely terrorists in the west bank, they hide behind civilians for propaganda and safety. Civilians will definitely get killed, it’s a war and this happens in every war
Not if there are enemy combatants in those places. You can’t launch missiles from a hospital and expect the enemy not to strike at your missile stockpile
If terrorists are shooting missiles at you, you have the right to respond and shoot missiles back. If you warned the civilians and not all of them left, that’s a situation out of your control. Do you have an alternate solution?
They don’t do a great job of it, but when has anyone else prevented all civilian casualties in a war? It doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to strike at Hamas
That’s right that they don’t do a great job at that as they kill over 20 times more Palestinians than Hamas kills Israeli. They just don’t care at all.
That’s such a dumb argument, Hamas would LOVE to kill more civilians in fact they’d like to kill all the Jewish people in Israel. Israel could very easily kill everyone in Gaza but instead they’re building complex defensive systems and using incredibly expensive systems to try and limit civilian casualties.
Yes Hamas are not nice people and would happily kill every Israeli, but that doesn’t mean Israel should not exercise caution to avoid killing palestinians.
The oppression of Palestinian people by Israel predates the existence of Hamas. Gaza (until 2007 when the blockade began) and the West Bank have been under Israeli military occupation since 1967, against international law. Hamas is a more violent, more radical descendant from the Muslim Brotherhood and was founded in 1987.
What I don’t understand is why many reject Sharia law as fascist and undemocratic, which is a justified opinion, but hand-wave Zionism even tho it’s the same fascist Holy Scripture bullshit in a different color.
By internationally recognized you mean recognized by the Muslim community.
Up until 1967 Egypt controlled gaza and Jordan the west bank and there was no talk of peace, the line has always been there can be no state of Israel in any form. Within the last 20 years pals have been offered states on the 1967 borders and refused. The Oslo accords which included incremental steps to peace led to nothing but terrorism, all the aid pals receive they use for terrorism. They have explicitly unanimously said for decades that they will fight Israel to the death and have not made any offers or concessions to peace and you want to just these Islamic fundamentalist to behave if they let them into Israel? Do you know the history of Lebanon. You are native if you think you can trust hamas’, ISIS… Did you not see hamas on TV saying they didn’t target civilians in their attacks?
Before 1967 the arabs refused to accept the state of Israel and launched a war to destroy it in 1967 so they lost the land. The land is not held for them in perpetuity to attack and attack… If they want peace they have to give in peace, if they attack them they should be attacked, it is simple.
No one should be kept in prison but you keep a murderer in prison because of what they’ve done.
At this point you will say, well what about what Israel did… And I promise you if you go back pals have instigated every conflict. They are unwilling to live in peace with non Muslim, they follow a fascist Islamic ideology and are explicit about it. The jews , who are the natives of the land, have repeatedly shown a willingness to live in peace with arabs, with a pal state and with arabs in the Jewish state. During the Oslo peace negotiations they talked about putting Arab areae of Israel under the PLO and the Israeli arabs absolutely refused, Arabs living in Israel have better quality of life than anywhere in the Arab world, Arab countries are corrupt theocracies, Israel is a liberal democracy , this is why the fascist Muslims hate it, this is what they are talking about when they say ‘european colonialsim’, that it’s not a fascist Muslim theocracy
So since you’re a massive moron I don’t plan to engage with you much longer, but lemme say this: Netenyahu’s election platform is and has been for thirty years not making peace with Palestinians. He’s actively sabotaged the Palestinian peace movement over and over to prevent it from happening.
Yeah he won because before him you had leftist prime ministers who offered everything to the pals, have them more autonomy and it only resulted in more terrorism. The pals will fight to the death no matter what, they say so explicitly, they don’t want freedom or prosperity they are Islamic fascist and want to destroy Israel , that’s it. If they wanted peace and prosperity they’ve already had every opportunity
1947 is its own mess, but it was Israel (specifically Netenyahu) who called off the Oslo accords. Where the fuck did you find that Palestinians refused a two state solution in 1993?
The Palestinians suspended the talks and never made a counter offer. After that Hamas etc sent suicide bombers and an Israeli terrorist machine gunned a mosque and there’s never been a chance of peace since
In Israel’s May 1999 elections, the Labor Party’s Ehud Barak decisively defeated Netanyahu. Barak predicted that he could reach agreements with both Syria and the Palestinians in 12 to 15 months, and pledged to withdraw Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. In September, Barak signed the Sharm al-Shaykh Memorandum with Arafat, which committed both sides to begin permanent status negotiations. An initial round of meetings, however, achieved nothing, and by December the Palestinians suspended talks over settlement-building in the occupied territories.
Okay so we need to distinguish between the Oslo accords (which Netenyahu called off in 1996) and the 2000 Camp David summit. You’re talking about the latter. With that out of the way, the 2000 Camp David summit deal had very objectionable terms for Palestinians. I can go into the details, but I think we can just take the then-Israeli Minister of Foreign Relations’s word for it.
In 2006, Shlomo Ben-Ami stated on Democracy Now! that "Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.
Special forces operations meticulously planned to clear out the tunnels, with both less lethal options and lethal options depending on whether resistance is armed or not.
Using precision munitions on verified targets instead of levelling entire blocks
Not turning off electricity to children’s hospitals
Not starving people
Even if you fully believe that Hamas should be and can be ripped out root and stem, cutting off electricity and food is completely inexcusable.
I never said cutting off electricity and food is necessary. I agree that precision strikes (with prior notification to civilians) are the preferred way to destroy military targets, but I also think Israel has the right to go in and remove Hamas permanently. This would also cause civilian casualties, but Hamas has shown it’s not an organization that can be allowed to exist
Its really not that complicated: 2 million civilians can’t be held accountable for a terrorist groups doings.
What do you think Israel should be doing?
I keep seeing this question and I’m in disbelief anyone is actually parroting this in good faith.
Not genocide? Can they not do genocide? There are a million different options to combat terrorism but right wing governments only know how to send in shock troops into civilian populations. Just because these assholes are assholes doesn’t mean this is the only option.
So hamas’ should just get a free pass?
They were warned to go to the South and most.of them did. Why doesn’t Egypt let in the gazans?
Then they were bombed along the way, couldn’t take shelter in the south and had to go back.
They were afraid of bombing on the route to safety so they returned to continued bombing.
Makes sense.
It’s not a wall of bombs on the border and you’re at risk either way.
Preface: I do not know enough of this subject or conflict to speak authoritatively.
If they were told to leave their homes and take a certain path to avoid being bombed, trusted that advice but were bombed on the “safe” path anyway by the very people who told them they would be safe if they took said path, why should they continue to trust whoever told them that?
Furthermore, if there were bombs dropping on and/or around you no matter what you did or who you listened to, simply for existing in the wrong place and at no fault of your own, wouldn’t you rather at least be in the “comfort” of your own home?
How do you know this? Is it from the say people who said their was a hospital bombing ? They lie about everything. I’m not saying I know for sure but I am skeptical. It is possible some people were bombed but there are many many people who evacuated to the South
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes
This is a report relying pal reporting, after the hospital thing I will definitely not take it at face value, and none the less they started a war.
This is not disputed. Why is the default assumption that Palestinians are lying and Israelis are not?
Everyone needs to take a step back and look at their own biases on this issue
Because pals always lie, because all these Arab countries are propaganda regimes. They had hamas spokespeople on CNN and BBC saying things like civilians are were not targeted on 10/7. They tell the most ridiculous lies. Do you you also think North Korea are not liars, do you Believe the North Korean dictator for 18 holes in one at golf?
Great job on stereotyping an entire population of peoples as liars. 👍
And downplaying the loss of innocent lives to boot.
It is “possible” that some were bombed? I guess as long as only some innocent people were bombed everything is ok. After all “many many” were safely uprooted from their homes and evacuated south. Hooray…
I doubt this will sink in but I have to try. There have definitely been innocent lives lost from both sides of this conflict and every one of them is a tragedy. I’m not advocating for either side here because everyone involved in the loss of innocent lives sucks. I don’t have a magical solution either so don’t bother asking. Innocent people have already, and will continue to die in this conflict. Don’t try to make it seem like innocent casualties aren’t a big deal.
Why doesn’t Israel let in the Gazans?
Because they have sworn to kill them , they’ve launched numerous attacks… Do you actually think the Israelis should just trust them😂
What about the children? Do the babies have knives hidden in their blankies?
Reading all these comments really shows how many people see Palestinians as subhuman.
https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sca_esv=577385484&q=hakas+toddler+suicide+bomber&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-59P0i5iCAxXFH0QIHYfzCKoQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=432&bih=836&dpr=2.5#imgrc=X1wazPfCQMLzkM
This is from 2002 and the source is the Israeli army. I’m exhausted of you assholes.
It’s a good thing they’re very clearly not being held accountable, then.
They are. 2000 dead kids in the last 20 days are saying that Israel holds the whole of Gaza accountable.
First of all who knows the number and who knows how many are kids vs terrorists, but Hamas wants the kids to die, they tell them not to leave.
Maybe they should stop bombing, so we can determine the number?
Hamas cannot start a war and then one sidedely ask for end of a war. To end a war both sides have to agree to end it.
Obviously 🙄
Should not stop bombing until Hamas is destroyed
How will we know if we can’t count them?
For started when they stop firing rockets
Yes, I agree Israel should stop firing rockets. Then we can confirm the civilian death counts.
No it doesn’t because that number would be vastly higher if they were. Do you think Israel couldn’t mow down Gazans en masse if that was their intent?
This is why calling Israel’s actions “genocide” is so fuckin dumb.
So 2000 dead kids is business as usual for Israel? Got it. This is why the world is waking up. The genocidal regime will soon come to an end.
Perhaps Hamas should focus on saving the civilians instead of firing rockets?
Yes Hamas’s genocidal regime has weeks left, at most.
Israel should remember how close it came to.destruction in prior war.
Genocide has consequence and Israel is not above them.
Yeah, Israel was attacked and came close to losing. Israel avoids genocide by killing the terrorists, not capitulating to them
Eternal war cannot bring peace
If someone ever stacks up Skulls in Tel Aviv, remember that Israel had a chance to pursue peace.
Hamas has vowed for eternal war, they are fascists who say they will not accept Israel existence in any capacity. They start wars make all these threats and then when they die they go ‘oh look at the children’. A person with morals and strong intellect.can see they of course.these evil people will lie and flail in every disingenuous way. Truly disgusting people, threaten genocide all die and cry about any steps taken against them. The other Arab countries are much more severe with dissidents, they understand the mentality better
A) Hamas isn’t going to destroy Israel, ever
B) Israel isn’t committing genocide. If they were honestly attempting genocide right now, they’d provably be so laughably bad at it that no one should fear it
I didn’t say Hamas.
You’re welcome to keep thinking that Israel is invulnerable.
But if they stay on this path, well.
What I’m saying is they better hope Merkava doesn’t become obsolete or high risk on the very near future.
Hezbollah and Iran are NOT Hamas.
And Fate does not protect them.
Fate doesn’t need to protect them. Multiple US carrier groups are.
They are mowing them down en masse though. The reason more haven’t been killed is because they have shelters and tunnels to protect from the strikes. They have leveled whole villages, apartment towers holding hundreds of people, and struck routes specifically designated by the IDF as safe avenues for people to escape. The number killed is likely much higher than the reports we have seen, like after an earthquake or other disasters there are hundreds of people labeled ‘missing’ until they are more certain they are deceased.
No they are not
It’s almost certainly lower, because Hamas as already been caught lying. However, nickel and diming it seems ghoulish
This is a wholesale misrepresentation of the facts
Edit: if you’re wondering who is randomly shooting missiles at civilians and mowing people down en masse, surprise! it’s Hamas
https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1717359090576322586?t=0hFX4WZF2N87IJdVEsMYQQ&s=19
And they do it while stealing from the Palestinian people they’re supposed to provide for
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-plagued-poverty-hamas-no-shortage-cash-come-rcna121099
Alright, now you’re fucking pissing me off.
Sorry that reality upsets you.
Don’t read too much history do ya?
Yes the guy explaining history is the one ignorant of it.
That’s how things work.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Lmao do you still think Israel bombed that hospital?
Removed by mod
“Why believe independent studies and international media when I can believe a literal terrorist organization”
Do you, man.
Oh fun fact:
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1717909792851677399?t=bq9hglHmBpmwnmDUkBjZ8w&s=19
… An actual war crime!
Oh and why do you like the people starving the Gazans?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-plagued-poverty-hamas-no-shortage-cash-come-rcna121099
There’s just so much to share https://www.ynetnews.com/article/b1xzpqdmt
“…inside and outside of Palestine” in case you thought this was just about Israel/Palestine and not about genocide against Jews. Keep in mind these people think all of Israel is Palestine.
These are bad people and you’re dumb for supporting them.
Removed by mod
Don’t read the news much do ya?
So you would do nothing and let terrorists get away with it
There’s a very wide range of options between “doing nothing” and “intentionally bombing civilians”
They’re not intentionally bombing civilians, you are repeating about. Hamas’ attacks civilians and hides behind civilians
So long as Israel continues to remain in that range, you support them, full-bore yeah?
They warned them ahead of time, which is the correct way to do war. Can’t be intentionally targeting civilians if you tell everyone where you strike
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-attacking-south-gaza-after-telling-people-go-there-2023-10-25/
well they also are bombing the places that they told the civilians to go for safety, that kinda seems like intentionally targeting civilians to me
deleted by creator
You can if you then strike everywhere.
I also don’t believe they do it consistently.
If someone argument is: they warn them, even though there are pictures of convey leaving an area getting bombed, or death numbers, in non hamas areas, west bank, has sky rocketed, you can tell they don’t care about human dying, they just want to win an argument over the internet.
Not to mention it’s still pretty fucking shitty bombing their homes, even if they were making every effort to ensure they don’t die in the process.
Imagine receiving a flyer that said “get out before we level this building tonight”.
Imagine not receiving a flyer, just being killed by a rocket launched by Hamas without warning
They bomb where there are terrorists and there are definitely terrorists in the west bank, they hide behind civilians for propaganda and safety. Civilians will definitely get killed, it’s a war and this happens in every war
West Bank, the famously terrorist-free area
Nope. Bombing civilian infrastructure is a war crime.
Not if there are enemy combatants in those places. You can’t launch missiles from a hospital and expect the enemy not to strike at your missile stockpile
How many innocent people can I murder along with the terrorist, before I’M the terrorist?
1?
10?
10,000?
Or do I need the full 6,000,000?
If terrorists are shooting missiles at you, you have the right to respond and shoot missiles back. If you warned the civilians and not all of them left, that’s a situation out of your control. Do you have an alternate solution?
“imma let a nuclear bomb explode in New York in 1 hour, yall need to leave.” There, properly warned. Damn this is easy isn’t it?
“Gazans! We are going to strike Gaza! Now you’re warned, eat shit and die”
The answer isn’t to indiscriminately just level entire neighborhoods.
I agree, but even a surgical operation would cause civilian deaths. You can’t deny that there would be costs to civilians
Yeah, why bother trying to minimize civilian casualties, especially if it sounds like work.
They don’t do a great job of it, but when has anyone else prevented all civilian casualties in a war? It doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to strike at Hamas
That’s right that they don’t do a great job at that as they kill over 20 times more Palestinians than Hamas kills Israeli. They just don’t care at all.
That’s such a dumb argument, Hamas would LOVE to kill more civilians in fact they’d like to kill all the Jewish people in Israel. Israel could very easily kill everyone in Gaza but instead they’re building complex defensive systems and using incredibly expensive systems to try and limit civilian casualties.
You can’t just go on which number is bigger.
Yes Hamas are not nice people and would happily kill every Israeli, but that doesn’t mean Israel should not exercise caution to avoid killing palestinians.
The oppression of Palestinian people by Israel predates the existence of Hamas. Gaza (until 2007 when the blockade began) and the West Bank have been under Israeli military occupation since 1967, against international law. Hamas is a more violent, more radical descendant from the Muslim Brotherhood and was founded in 1987.
Everyone knew and knows that Hamas is radical organization bent on terrorism, but still the current Likud regime deliberately used Hamas to keep PNA-influence at bay.
What I don’t understand is why many reject Sharia law as fascist and undemocratic, which is a justified opinion, but hand-wave Zionism even tho it’s the same fascist Holy Scripture bullshit in a different color.
Source: Hamas
Source: the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
But thanks for playing.
Israel could start with restoring the internationally recognised borders. That’s one war crime down.
By internationally recognized you mean recognized by the Muslim community.
Up until 1967 Egypt controlled gaza and Jordan the west bank and there was no talk of peace, the line has always been there can be no state of Israel in any form. Within the last 20 years pals have been offered states on the 1967 borders and refused. The Oslo accords which included incremental steps to peace led to nothing but terrorism, all the aid pals receive they use for terrorism. They have explicitly unanimously said for decades that they will fight Israel to the death and have not made any offers or concessions to peace and you want to just these Islamic fundamentalist to behave if they let them into Israel? Do you know the history of Lebanon. You are native if you think you can trust hamas’, ISIS… Did you not see hamas on TV saying they didn’t target civilians in their attacks?
Bruh there is literally a UN resolution calling for Israel’s retreat to 1967 borders.
The UN is not the arbitrator of morality.
Before 1967 the arabs refused to accept the state of Israel and launched a war to destroy it in 1967 so they lost the land. The land is not held for them in perpetuity to attack and attack… If they want peace they have to give in peace, if they attack them they should be attacked, it is simple.
No one should be kept in prison but you keep a murderer in prison because of what they’ve done.
At this point you will say, well what about what Israel did… And I promise you if you go back pals have instigated every conflict. They are unwilling to live in peace with non Muslim, they follow a fascist Islamic ideology and are explicit about it. The jews , who are the natives of the land, have repeatedly shown a willingness to live in peace with arabs, with a pal state and with arabs in the Jewish state. During the Oslo peace negotiations they talked about putting Arab areae of Israel under the PLO and the Israeli arabs absolutely refused, Arabs living in Israel have better quality of life than anywhere in the Arab world, Arab countries are corrupt theocracies, Israel is a liberal democracy , this is why the fascist Muslims hate it, this is what they are talking about when they say ‘european colonialsim’, that it’s not a fascist Muslim theocracy
So since you’re a massive moron I don’t plan to engage with you much longer, but lemme say this: Netenyahu’s election platform is and has been for thirty years not making peace with Palestinians. He’s actively sabotaged the Palestinian peace movement over and over to prevent it from happening.
And good job changing the goalposts.
Yeah he won because before him you had leftist prime ministers who offered everything to the pals, have them more autonomy and it only resulted in more terrorism. The pals will fight to the death no matter what, they say so explicitly, they don’t want freedom or prosperity they are Islamic fascist and want to destroy Israel , that’s it. If they wanted peace and prosperity they’ve already had every opportunity
The UN proposed partition in 1947, Palestinians refused.
The US proposed a two state solution in 1993, Palestinians refused
What the fuck? What the actual fuck?
1947 is its own mess, but it was Israel (specifically Netenyahu) who called off the Oslo accords. Where the fuck did you find that Palestinians refused a two state solution in 1993?
The Palestinians suspended the talks and never made a counter offer. After that Hamas etc sent suicide bombers and an Israeli terrorist machine gunned a mosque and there’s never been a chance of peace since
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1993-2000/oslo
Okay so we need to distinguish between the Oslo accords (which Netenyahu called off in 1996) and the 2000 Camp David summit. You’re talking about the latter. With that out of the way, the 2000 Camp David summit deal had very objectionable terms for Palestinians. I can go into the details, but I think we can just take the then-Israeli Minister of Foreign Relations’s word for it.
Do you believe those are the only two options?
What is the alternative?
I can think of a few:
Special forces operations meticulously planned to clear out the tunnels, with both less lethal options and lethal options depending on whether resistance is armed or not.
Using precision munitions on verified targets instead of levelling entire blocks
Not turning off electricity to children’s hospitals
Not starving people
Even if you fully believe that Hamas should be and can be ripped out root and stem, cutting off electricity and food is completely inexcusable.
I never said cutting off electricity and food is necessary. I agree that precision strikes (with prior notification to civilians) are the preferred way to destroy military targets, but I also think Israel has the right to go in and remove Hamas permanently. This would also cause civilian casualties, but Hamas has shown it’s not an organization that can be allowed to exist