It’s why I simply do not respect the opinions of people who say “I gave up on Discovery/SNW/Picard/LD in the first or second season.” I never have and I never will. That stance has an extreme double standard and I simply do not have a single ounce of respect for people who push it.
Those shows have around 10 episodes a season.
TNG, DS9, and VOY had about 20-24 per season.
They also ALL started with some really shitty opening seasons. Voyager didn’t get going until season 4ish, DS9 didn’t until late season 2/season 3. TNG took about two seasons to fully find its feet and have some of the most godawful TV of all Star Trek.
The same people whinin about New Trek will sit through all that garbage but won’t sit through 2 seasons of Discovery/Picard when it’s fewer episodes than a single season of OldTrek
If you say you don’t like the show then you don’t like the show. But anyone who says" I gave up after Season 1 or Season 2" I just immediately write off. I’ll still be respectful and kind and polite and care about them but opinions on what is and isn’t good Star Trek? Discarded on sight.
When I would re-watch TNG I used to skip the first two seasons. They’re pretty rough, but then I missed some of the good ones (measure of man, for example). Now I just skip the individual crappy ones.
Exactly. That’s how to judge it. There are some amazing episodes but ignoring a show entirely because of some weak overall seasons is doing nothing but a disservice to yourself and to the show.
I think people are holding SNW in such high regard because when it’s compared to the rest of nu-trek, it’s god tier. By itself, it’s ok. I like it well enough. Plenty of stinkers episodes though. I still have hope for it.
Fervently disagree, it has squandered all it could have been and the writing is still absolutely awful. Granted, it’s a notch above Discovery and Picard.
The best Star Trek show is the one you like the most. If that’s Discovery, that’s fine. And if you don’t like the show, that’s also fine. But making an overall declaration that a show is terrible and tacitly expecting everyone to agree is not cool.
I’m not expecting everyone agree whether or telling anyone whether or not they should or shouldn’t like it, but there are many more demonstrable issues with writing and plotting, let alone canon, that exist in excess throughout Discovery, Picard, and SNW. These are objective issues that actual writers have taken issue with, and they’re consistent issues with the executive producers involved.
Absolutely TNG or DS9 aren’t some pantheon of perfection, but from an overall standpoint of consistency, narrative continuity, and proper handling of characters and their development? They’re lightyears beyond the juvenile handling of characters and plots in the post 09 FMV shows. It’s just fact.
First off, no clue what your opening line is even attempting to say.
Second, no. It isn’t “just fact” lol
Listing examples instead of rambling opinions is far more convincing if you’re trying to get people to believe you. Especially when you claim that there are “many” issues, that they’re “objective” and that “writers have taken issue with.”
Moreover, if you want to share fact then separate the opinion from it. I am not taking you seriously both for the lack of example but also the fact that you are showing too much of your own opinion. The juvenile comment, the angry energy, saying “actual” writers to discredit people you disagree with further. Also the like “It’s just fact” is rarely spoken by people who are simply sharing objective fact.
Really hard to take someone at face value when they’re so angry and bitter.
You’re ascribing a lot of emotional baggage to what I typed on my phone while pedaling a stationary bike that doesn’t exist.
I’m not here to argue the finer points of plot holes in these productions that have been under spotlights for years and detailed far better by people with enough time to make hundreds of videos on the subjects like Robert Meyer Burnett, Nitpicking Nerd, and Red Letter Media.
If you enjoy these shows, fantastic, more power to you. Just don’t tell me they’re amazingly well-made and just as good as previous incarnations of Star Trek when they can and have been analyzed ad nauseam, displaying exactly how they aren’t.
Robert Meyer Burnett, Nitpicking Nerd, and Red Letter Media.
…This is not the take you thing it is lol
Red Letter Media
Ah yes. The self proclaimed racists who use ragebaiting as their primary method of getting people to watch their videos.
Nitpicking Nerd
Ah yes. The dude who openly uses his cynicism in his username and who constantly uses ragebaiting as well to get people to watch his videos.
Robert Meyer Burnett
Fucking who?
Like I said. Unless you are providing examples then I’m simply not taking you seriously. Your dismissal of it entirely and refusal to even attempt to defend your position means you simply don’t have a valid one.
I like the shows but that has nothing to do with this conversation. My liking of the show isn’t the reason why I’m expecting an unbiased/critical review. It’s simply because I have standards. Doesn’t matter if it is for Star Trek, Star Wars, or some show i’ve never even heard of. Anyone who’s going to inject their own emotional opinion into a review, and then refusal to even elaborate on position while doubling down, is someone whose opinion is just not worth the time to read to it.
The only fake trekkies are the ones complaining that newer Trek is too political or “woke.”
What show did they even watch?
They’re not “too political” or “woke,” they’re written by terrible committees and the executive producers / show runners are hacks.
Lower Decks (and Prodigy, I’m told) excluded.
Strange New Worlds is fantastic and takes plenty of risks other shows don’t.
It’s a little little hit or miss. I really liked some of it, but some of the early stuff wasn’t so great.
So it really is Star Trek, then. :P
People like to forget how many shit episodes of every series there are.
It’s why I simply do not respect the opinions of people who say “I gave up on Discovery/SNW/Picard/LD in the first or second season.” I never have and I never will. That stance has an extreme double standard and I simply do not have a single ounce of respect for people who push it.
Those shows have around 10 episodes a season.
TNG, DS9, and VOY had about 20-24 per season.
They also ALL started with some really shitty opening seasons. Voyager didn’t get going until season 4ish, DS9 didn’t until late season 2/season 3. TNG took about two seasons to fully find its feet and have some of the most godawful TV of all Star Trek.
The same people whinin about New Trek will sit through all that garbage but won’t sit through 2 seasons of Discovery/Picard when it’s fewer episodes than a single season of OldTrek
If you say you don’t like the show then you don’t like the show. But anyone who says" I gave up after Season 1 or Season 2" I just immediately write off. I’ll still be respectful and kind and polite and care about them but opinions on what is and isn’t good Star Trek? Discarded on sight.
When I would re-watch TNG I used to skip the first two seasons. They’re pretty rough, but then I missed some of the good ones (measure of man, for example). Now I just skip the individual crappy ones.
Exactly. That’s how to judge it. There are some amazing episodes but ignoring a show entirely because of some weak overall seasons is doing nothing but a disservice to yourself and to the show.
Idk, I watched 2-3 seasons of DSC and gave up, my gf liked it so she kept watching it, whenever I’d watch an episode with her, I wouldn’t enjoy it.
DSC convinced her to watch TNG, so we watched it from the start and seasons 1-2 were better than I remembered.
You’re not wrong…
I think people are holding SNW in such high regard because when it’s compared to the rest of nu-trek, it’s god tier. By itself, it’s ok. I like it well enough. Plenty of stinkers episodes though. I still have hope for it.
I actually rather like it. I think it’s made good progress past its first season. 
Fervently disagree, it has squandered all it could have been and the writing is still absolutely awful. Granted, it’s a notch above Discovery and Picard.
Why?
The best Star Trek show is the one you like the most. If that’s Discovery, that’s fine. And if you don’t like the show, that’s also fine. But making an overall declaration that a show is terrible and tacitly expecting everyone to agree is not cool.
I’m not expecting everyone agree whether or telling anyone whether or not they should or shouldn’t like it, but there are many more demonstrable issues with writing and plotting, let alone canon, that exist in excess throughout Discovery, Picard, and SNW. These are objective issues that actual writers have taken issue with, and they’re consistent issues with the executive producers involved.
Absolutely TNG or DS9 aren’t some pantheon of perfection, but from an overall standpoint of consistency, narrative continuity, and proper handling of characters and their development? They’re lightyears beyond the juvenile handling of characters and plots in the post 09 FMV shows. It’s just fact.
First off, no clue what your opening line is even attempting to say.
Second, no. It isn’t “just fact” lol
Listing examples instead of rambling opinions is far more convincing if you’re trying to get people to believe you. Especially when you claim that there are “many” issues, that they’re “objective” and that “writers have taken issue with.”
Moreover, if you want to share fact then separate the opinion from it. I am not taking you seriously both for the lack of example but also the fact that you are showing too much of your own opinion. The juvenile comment, the angry energy, saying “actual” writers to discredit people you disagree with further. Also the like “It’s just fact” is rarely spoken by people who are simply sharing objective fact.
Really hard to take someone at face value when they’re so angry and bitter.
You’re ascribing a lot of emotional baggage to what I typed on my phone while pedaling a stationary bike that doesn’t exist.
I’m not here to argue the finer points of plot holes in these productions that have been under spotlights for years and detailed far better by people with enough time to make hundreds of videos on the subjects like Robert Meyer Burnett, Nitpicking Nerd, and Red Letter Media.
If you enjoy these shows, fantastic, more power to you. Just don’t tell me they’re amazingly well-made and just as good as previous incarnations of Star Trek when they can and have been analyzed ad nauseam, displaying exactly how they aren’t.
…This is not the take you thing it is lol
Ah yes. The self proclaimed racists who use ragebaiting as their primary method of getting people to watch their videos.
Ah yes. The dude who openly uses his cynicism in his username and who constantly uses ragebaiting as well to get people to watch his videos.
Fucking who?
Like I said. Unless you are providing examples then I’m simply not taking you seriously. Your dismissal of it entirely and refusal to even attempt to defend your position means you simply don’t have a valid one.
I like the shows but that has nothing to do with this conversation. My liking of the show isn’t the reason why I’m expecting an unbiased/critical review. It’s simply because I have standards. Doesn’t matter if it is for Star Trek, Star Wars, or some show i’ve never even heard of. Anyone who’s going to inject their own emotional opinion into a review, and then refusal to even elaborate on position while doubling down, is someone whose opinion is just not worth the time to read to it.
Wow, they’re just outing themselves