But if you are unable to understand that, bye, blocked ya, since that’s apparently what you want. Hope you can sleep with the knowledge that you’re supporting a group that proudly parades stripped, raped and broken women through the streets.
Not really. I wanted you to explain to me why you think that cutting off food and water to 2.3 million people doesn’t meet the definition of genocide. But you just want to talk about Hamas. I didn’t even mention them.
I shouldn’t have said you aren’t capable of it. You are, I’m sure. You just don’t want to for some reason.
You cannot prove a negative and it is really hard to prove intent. You both disagree on the intent. All he has to do is show military purpose. Your burden of proof is much higher.
I’m not sure what else the intent could be. If I lock someone in a room and eventually stop pushing food and water under the door for them what else am I doing but killing them on purpose? I honestly don’t understand how else this can be interpreted. I don’t even think this is really a matter of opinion.
Gaza has been blockaded for almost 20 years. It’s the complete stopping of food and water for months that makes it genocide, yeah. Combined with all the bombing etc. Are you being serious?
If you show me any analogous situation to Gaza then yes you will show me another genocide. Feel free to give an example you think is similar but widely accepted as fine.
Edit: still absolutely reeling over this: “Oh so you’re saying that every case of mass civilian starvation is genocide?!” Err… yeah?
The word genocide has been over-used and diluted. It should only be used sparingly if you want it to retain any meaning at all. Hitler actually attempted to exterminate the Jews. That is the modern canonical example for genocide, but there are many historical examples as well (Carthage, etc.). Israel isn’t doing anything like that. You are just playing word games with an ambiguous definition.
Ah yes, comparing 18,000 people dead as the result of collateral damage in dense urban warfare to the systematic round-up and extermination of 6 million Jews by Hitler. Makes perfect sense. What was I thinking?
I hope they read it. This post was what made me start openly calling it genocide. It’s a weighty word to use but that’s why it’s important to do so when it is actually happening. You can’t promise “never again” if you don’t remember what it even is.
Yes, I know. I’m saying that the definition can be read expansively or narrowly, and when it is read expansively, it loses some of its impact. To my mind, putting the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the same category as Nazi death camps is somewhat problematic. Do you disagree?
People left to die from preventable diseases in a preventable siege?
153:10 at the UNGA, with only ten countries (including the US and Israel, or “Azrael” as my grandma liked to call them) standing in the way of a humanitarian ceasefire?
Literally all of this was happening in Ukraine and nobody serious was calling it a genocide. It is just urban warfare. It sucks but it is not genocide.
oh, so you do acknowledge that Putin’s actions have also been called genocidal, you’re just also being consistent at refusing to acknowledge genocide at all. well, at least you’re willing to acknowledge consistency in genocide, even if you’re unwilling to call it that.
still, you’d also have to say that if I don’t know what genocide means, then the UN also doesn’t know what genocide means when they accuse Putin of genocide in Ukraine (source) as they have of Israel in Palestine (source)…
Say whatever you want, at the end of the day, the IDF is the one to pull the trigger and fire missiles that eventually killed thousands of children. About 7k now?
And it would be zero had Hamas not started the war by raping, abducting and murdering random Israelis, including children. Also, this war would end today if Hamas surrendered. I’m not blaming the IDF for striking at Hamas, I’m blaming Hamas for starting this war. I’m blaming Hamas for hiding in Gaza’s civilian population. I’m blaming Hamas for every single death in this pointless war.
It’s really very telling that you seem to think Hamas deliberately murdering random Israelis in alleged (and I don’t believe Hamas for a second here) response to the actions of Israel in the West Bank is somehow justified, but that Israel striking at actual terrorists and in the process unintentionally killing some of the civilians the terrorists hide behind is not.
Unintentionally killing 18k people in their homes or in shelters and then doing a big Oops!, that’s what you think is happening?
I never said what Hamas did was justified, I’m saying it’s the inevitable result of oppressing a peopöe this long under conditions that break international law and are often considered crimes against humanity and apartheid. 😊
Sadly it seems that the IDF’s incompetence may have caused a number of the deaths of October 7th, so I hope you blame them too when they drove tanks into houses or when witnesses say the IDF came in and shot both Hamas fighters and hostages. The hannibal detective, and all… Israel is blaming Hamas for it not only killing a another nation, but also their own.
I feel bad for all the teens in the IDF that get caught up in this tragedy. And I feel bad for you for not being able to take a stand against this atrocity. If you condemn Hamas, be brave and honest enough to condemn Israel. Israel keeps killing Palestinians every single day, more than ever before in the past two months, and we need to have the guts to look passed our biases and expose it and stop it.
If the person behind the hostage is a serial killer who is certain to keep killing, yes. We’re talking about an organisation which has broken every ceasefire Israel has ever made with it.
Considering the whole OCCUPATION AND BLOCKADE they are responsible for providing those things.
Tying people up in the streets, destroying toys and other items, burning a trailer with food and water in it, killing journalists, not allowing independent investigators in to see anything.
I’ll tell you what I’ll start believing Israel actually cares about anyone but themselves when you can show me the decapitated babies they said they had
Except hundreds of Palestinians were already killed by Israel before 10/7, and thousands were/are held in military courts without any charges for months at a time.
I’m not, I simply disagree with you.
But if you are unable to understand that, bye, blocked ya, since that’s apparently what you want. Hope you can sleep with the knowledge that you’re supporting a group that proudly parades stripped, raped and broken women through the streets.
Not really. I wanted you to explain to me why you think that cutting off food and water to 2.3 million people doesn’t meet the definition of genocide. But you just want to talk about Hamas. I didn’t even mention them.
I shouldn’t have said you aren’t capable of it. You are, I’m sure. You just don’t want to for some reason.
You cannot prove a negative and it is really hard to prove intent. You both disagree on the intent. All he has to do is show military purpose. Your burden of proof is much higher.
I’m not sure what else the intent could be. If I lock someone in a room and eventually stop pushing food and water under the door for them what else am I doing but killing them on purpose? I honestly don’t understand how else this can be interpreted. I don’t even think this is really a matter of opinion.
Is it really that inconceivable to you that a blockaid had a military purpose? Were all the blockaids in history considered genocide?
Gaza has been blockaded for almost 20 years. It’s the complete stopping of food and water for months that makes it genocide, yeah. Combined with all the bombing etc. Are you being serious?
If you show me any analogous situation to Gaza then yes you will show me another genocide. Feel free to give an example you think is similar but widely accepted as fine.
Edit: still absolutely reeling over this: “Oh so you’re saying that every case of mass civilian starvation is genocide?!” Err… yeah?
The word genocide has been over-used and diluted. It should only be used sparingly if you want it to retain any meaning at all. Hitler actually attempted to exterminate the Jews. That is the modern canonical example for genocide, but there are many historical examples as well (Carthage, etc.). Israel isn’t doing anything like that. You are just playing word games with an ambiguous definition.
Ah yes 18,000 civilian dead bodies, all just playing word games in their mass graves.
Ah yes, comparing 18,000 people dead as the result of collateral damage in dense urban warfare to the systematic round-up and extermination of 6 million Jews by Hitler. Makes perfect sense. What was I thinking?
You’re wrong, please educate yourself.
https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide
I hope they read it. This post was what made me start openly calling it genocide. It’s a weighty word to use but that’s why it’s important to do so when it is actually happening. You can’t promise “never again” if you don’t remember what it even is.
I literally gave the official UN definition and argued a specific point regarding it.
Yes, I know. I’m saying that the definition can be read expansively or narrowly, and when it is read expansively, it loses some of its impact. To my mind, putting the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the same category as Nazi death camps is somewhat problematic. Do you disagree?
A military blockade on a civilian area?
People detained in unknown locations?
Constant shelling of schools and hospitals?
Withholding medical supplies?
People left to die from preventable diseases in a preventable siege?
153:10 at the UNGA, with only ten countries (including the US and Israel, or “Azrael” as my grandma liked to call them) standing in the way of a humanitarian ceasefire?
Sounds like
a pretense togenocide to me.Literally all of this was happening in Ukraine and nobody serious was calling it a genocide. It is just urban warfare. It sucks but it is not genocide.
Nice whataboutism, but people are absolutely calling what Putin is doing a genocide against Ukrainians (and have been all along) because it is.
Well, at least you are consistent about not understanding the differences between war and genocide.
Putin isn’t trying to “genocide” Ukrainians…
Are you sure you understand what genocide means? It doesn’t mean “any bad war thing”
oh, so you do acknowledge that Putin’s actions have also been called genocidal, you’re just also being consistent at refusing to acknowledge genocide at all. well, at least you’re willing to acknowledge consistency in genocide, even if you’re unwilling to call it that.
still, you’d also have to say that if I don’t know what genocide means, then the UN also doesn’t know what genocide means when they accuse Putin of genocide in Ukraine (source) as they have of Israel in Palestine (source)…
You are so close. So very close.
Can you really be happy with yourself supporting someone who is the cause of the tens of thousands of innocent dead who have nothing to do with 10/7?
No. Which is why I don’t support Hamas or anything that helps them.
Say whatever you want, at the end of the day, the IDF is the one to pull the trigger and fire missiles that eventually killed thousands of children. About 7k now?
And it would be zero had Hamas not started the war by raping, abducting and murdering random Israelis, including children. Also, this war would end today if Hamas surrendered. I’m not blaming the IDF for striking at Hamas, I’m blaming Hamas for starting this war. I’m blaming Hamas for hiding in Gaza’s civilian population. I’m blaming Hamas for every single death in this pointless war.
Still IDF pulling the trigger and firing all those dumb weapons on civilian areas and hospitals.
If you shoot through a baby to kill a terrorist, you still shot through a baby.
But what you’re saying is not true. Israel has been killing Palestinians heavily in the west bank prior to this. Not to mention every day.
It’s really very telling that you seem to think Hamas deliberately murdering random Israelis in alleged (and I don’t believe Hamas for a second here) response to the actions of Israel in the West Bank is somehow justified, but that Israel striking at actual terrorists and in the process unintentionally killing some of the civilians the terrorists hide behind is not.
“Justified”
Right…
Unintentionally killing 18k people in their homes or in shelters and then doing a big Oops!, that’s what you think is happening?
I never said what Hamas did was justified, I’m saying it’s the inevitable result of oppressing a peopöe this long under conditions that break international law and are often considered crimes against humanity and apartheid. 😊
Sadly it seems that the IDF’s incompetence may have caused a number of the deaths of October 7th, so I hope you blame them too when they drove tanks into houses or when witnesses say the IDF came in and shot both Hamas fighters and hostages. The hannibal detective, and all… Israel is blaming Hamas for it not only killing a another nation, but also their own.
I feel bad for all the teens in the IDF that get caught up in this tragedy. And I feel bad for you for not being able to take a stand against this atrocity. If you condemn Hamas, be brave and honest enough to condemn Israel. Israel keeps killing Palestinians every single day, more than ever before in the past two months, and we need to have the guts to look passed our biases and expose it and stop it.
So if you shoot a hostage to get to the person behind them it is not your fault?
If the person behind the hostage is a serial killer who is certain to keep killing, yes. We’re talking about an organisation which has broken every ceasefire Israel has ever made with it.
And the cutting off of water and food?
Considering the whole OCCUPATION AND BLOCKADE they are responsible for providing those things.
Tying people up in the streets, destroying toys and other items, burning a trailer with food and water in it, killing journalists, not allowing independent investigators in to see anything.
I’ll tell you what I’ll start believing Israel actually cares about anyone but themselves when you can show me the decapitated babies they said they had
Except hundreds of Palestinians were already killed by Israel before 10/7, and thousands were/are held in military courts without any charges for months at a time.
I noticed that pro Zionists always just jump to talking about Hamas as a way to “win” any argument.
they bombed a hospital? Hamas was there
a child was shot in the head? The child was having Hamas thoughts
There’s a genocide? Nope, just Hamas
So you simply think they can starve however many civilians they want, most of whom are children, because it hurts Hamas?