It’s this kind of rhetoric that prevents productive conversation. If we want anyone to change their minds the first step is to talk to them person to person, not boil someone down to black and white beliefs. People are more nuanced than that.
I can talk person to person with reasonable people. I do not find people reasonable that hate others for their skin color, their faith, or their identity, instead of hating them for their actions. I do not find people reasonable that want to exterminate those. I also do not find people reasonable that do not care about those being hated and death being wished upon them just because they are fiscally conservative .
My problem with “centrists” is that they’re using the word to avoid consequences for the hatred they spew online. Those “centrists” claim to be centrists but the only issues they ever talk about are right-wing issues, 99% of the time the culture war that they wage. Just say you’re republican and make it easy for me, I don’t care if we agree or disagree on other issues at the current time, if you think that exterminating different people is okay you cannot convince me of anything anymore.
It’s not even that black and white, because the term democrat and republican as far as political views mean much different things when it comes to different ages, backgrounds, area, etc.
For example, I tend to lean right when it comes to economics, however I do support things like public healthcare. Also, I lean pretty far left on social issues.
There are people all over the spectrum on all sorts of issues. I can see where it bothers people to be labeled one or the other because that’s not really who they are. I truly try to break candidates down by what their stances are and pick who most aligns with what I believe. I can honestly say every ballot I’ve ever cast I’ve voted for both Democrats and Republicans.
The only people I have a problem with is people that try to tell me I’m stupid because i didn’t vote all one way or the other.
You’re in favour of bloated government spending, the rich owning politicians, tax breaks for billionaires, increased taxes for the working class, companies polluting for free, fossil fuel subsidies, and increased healthcare costs to both the government and the individual to subsidize insurance companies?
You can’t talk to them person to person. That type of persuasion works in matters when the other person is operating in the cerebral realm of logic. The problem in politics is that we’re operating in the realm of identity, and you cannot reason somebody out of a matter of personal identity, because the brain treats threats to personal identity the same way as physical threats. Especially when it is a closed belief system that defines politics as tribal combat, veracity as irrelevant, any information that comes from outside the tribe as per se objectionable, and agreement as a failure of will.
Basically, the psychological research funds that you have to take them out of the Q/MAGA bubble, and surround them with people with diverse views. It can’t be done in online forums. I’ve tried. If you listen, you just get regurgitated talking points, and if you ask questions that start to make them think they abruptly disengage.
Especially when it is a closed belief system that defines politics as tribal combat
Is this not exactly what people are doing by making sweeping generalizations about others? I get you have had bad experiences, and I don’t doubt it in the slightest; however, saying that
You can’t talk to them person to person
seems very problematic. Yes, there are plenty of bad actors and people who will argue in bad faith, but there are also those who literally have never been exposed to different ways of thinking. There are those who have succumbed to the outrage machine. There are those who may just need a small nudge to challenge these beliefs they’ve been spoonfed their whole life.
The moment that you write off a whole group of people based on political beliefs, you write off any chance you have to change minds.
There’s a difference between prescriptive and descriptive, between saying what should be, and what is. I’m telling you the result of my empirical observations. You are welcome to try changing minds of people in the MAGA world. Don’t let me stop you. I’m just pointing out why it won’t work.
It’s this kind of rhetoric that prevents productive conversation. If we want anyone to change their minds the first step is to talk to them person to person, not boil someone down to black and white beliefs. People are more nuanced than that.
I can talk person to person with reasonable people. I do not find people reasonable that hate others for their skin color, their faith, or their identity, instead of hating them for their actions. I do not find people reasonable that want to exterminate those. I also do not find people reasonable that do not care about those being hated and death being wished upon them just because they are fiscally conservative .
My problem with “centrists” is that they’re using the word to avoid consequences for the hatred they spew online. Those “centrists” claim to be centrists but the only issues they ever talk about are right-wing issues, 99% of the time the culture war that they wage. Just say you’re republican and make it easy for me, I don’t care if we agree or disagree on other issues at the current time, if you think that exterminating different people is okay you cannot convince me of anything anymore.
It’s not even that black and white, because the term democrat and republican as far as political views mean much different things when it comes to different ages, backgrounds, area, etc.
For example, I tend to lean right when it comes to economics, however I do support things like public healthcare. Also, I lean pretty far left on social issues.
There are people all over the spectrum on all sorts of issues. I can see where it bothers people to be labeled one or the other because that’s not really who they are. I truly try to break candidates down by what their stances are and pick who most aligns with what I believe. I can honestly say every ballot I’ve ever cast I’ve voted for both Democrats and Republicans.
The only people I have a problem with is people that try to tell me I’m stupid because i didn’t vote all one way or the other.
You’re in favour of bloated government spending, the rich owning politicians, tax breaks for billionaires, increased taxes for the working class, companies polluting for free, fossil fuel subsidies, and increased healthcare costs to both the government and the individual to subsidize insurance companies?
Not really, some of those things yes but others no.
Well those are all right wing economics. Maybe you could be more specific
I have some people here telling me I’m a leftist, and others right.
Guess that kind of proves my point I’m not really left or right
You can’t talk to them person to person. That type of persuasion works in matters when the other person is operating in the cerebral realm of logic. The problem in politics is that we’re operating in the realm of identity, and you cannot reason somebody out of a matter of personal identity, because the brain treats threats to personal identity the same way as physical threats. Especially when it is a closed belief system that defines politics as tribal combat, veracity as irrelevant, any information that comes from outside the tribe as per se objectionable, and agreement as a failure of will.
Basically, the psychological research funds that you have to take them out of the Q/MAGA bubble, and surround them with people with diverse views. It can’t be done in online forums. I’ve tried. If you listen, you just get regurgitated talking points, and if you ask questions that start to make them think they abruptly disengage.
Is this not exactly what people are doing by making sweeping generalizations about others? I get you have had bad experiences, and I don’t doubt it in the slightest; however, saying that
seems very problematic. Yes, there are plenty of bad actors and people who will argue in bad faith, but there are also those who literally have never been exposed to different ways of thinking. There are those who have succumbed to the outrage machine. There are those who may just need a small nudge to challenge these beliefs they’ve been spoonfed their whole life.
The moment that you write off a whole group of people based on political beliefs, you write off any chance you have to change minds.
There’s a difference between prescriptive and descriptive, between saying what should be, and what is. I’m telling you the result of my empirical observations. You are welcome to try changing minds of people in the MAGA world. Don’t let me stop you. I’m just pointing out why it won’t work.
Sorry. I won’t stop calling a spade a spade.