Following the announcement by beehaw admins to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, there has been many posts and messages regarding that decisions and what other instances will do.
I personally believe Lemmy/kbin can only thrive if there is a free flow of content between different instances, with instance admins taking a back seat and focusing more on the infrastructure and making sure the technical bugs are smoothened out. Community mods can moderate their communities, and users can block the communities they don’t find appealing (there’s even a toggle in settings to hide every NSFW post from your feed altogether).
We don’t want to create walled gardens, nor do we want to make Lemmy more confusing than it already is for new users. We will not be defederating from any instance if there is even one good community on it that our instance users might find useful. So far we have only blocked lemmygrad.ml, and right now we have no plans to block anyone else.
as a kbinaut, may I ask why everyone feels it’s important to block lemmygrad? here on kbin we’re still federated with them and things seem fine?
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Yeah it’s obvious they’re straight up tankies over there. I just don’t see a difference in opinion/views as grounds for defederation, though I guess some might feel that way.
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I think there’s a difference between “unmoderated” and “free speech”. It’s one thing to allow all views and discourse. it’s another to just allow people to shit on the platform and degrade things due to unneeded hostility.
Like we don’t need 4chan-tier stuff, but why is anyone who’s slightly more conservative than “ultra progressive” instantly silenced?
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yup makes sense. each instance can decide what they wanna do. it’s interesting to see it all play out. I’m pretty happy with how kbin has approached things so far :)
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Qick question: Do you worship god?
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Yep, I worship Joe Pesci.
Because basically, everyone got scared from them being communists/socialists and just decided to defederate from them.
It’s nothing more than fear based on years of propaganda pushed by western countries, nothing more. They don’t defederate from anyone, yet everyone feels the need to defederate from them. Yes, they do have leftist views, they do think the world of many current and ex communist leaders, but if you don’t like that, you can just block their communities 🤷.
Other than that, their communites are mostly like everyone else’s, politics, memes, piracy, comics, etc. They even have a few LGBTQ+ dedicated communities and about 20% of them are LGBTQ+ acording to a recent demographic survey they had (you can find it in their main community), so… basically, they’re human, just like the rest of us.
Many of them are well informed, not to mention highly educated, so I can see why there is fear amongst other instances - a debate starts, most people will flop regarding info, facts, whatever, they’ll have the upper hand in the debate, so why actually try and listen to what they’ve got to say, they’re just tankies anyway - defederate 🤷.
If you don’t like their communities, just block them, no need to defederate from them… at least I can’t see a reason.
I don’t know why you’re insisting people who don’t like lemmygrad are anti-communists. Not all communists are pro-stalin tankies.
And not all liberals are pro war advocates… but some are.
Just because they like him, doesn’t mean they admire everything he did. The idea behind the USSR, yes, not the war crimes he commited. And there are war crimes on both sides of the fence, not just on Stalin’s side, yet they go unrecognized in history. If we villanize, let’s villanize both sides, not just one.
I see. I like the kbin philosophy of just federating with everyone. lemmygrad stuff doesn’t pop up that often here and from a quick look it didn’t really look like an issue. But yeah I guess you’re right that it’s just fear? or people just wanting to curate/block certain things…
It’s like my need to see less cat posts. I searched for every cat community there is on Lemmy and just blocked all of them. Problem solved 👍. Some people are just snowflakes and don’t even wanna do that out of fear they might see some tankie posts or something, so the admins just did their dirty work for them 😒.
I might open up a kbin account as well, this whole defederation thing sucks. I already have like 5 accounts cuz this instance is defederated from that instance and so on 😒.
yeah so far on kbin I think we’re federated with everyone and I think that’s kinda the default going forward. So unless other instances block us, we’re probably fine.
Cool, thanks for the info 👍.
Any app for kbin?
no mobile app just yet I think? I saw someone working on one but it’s not available yet. The website itself works with mobile browsers though, and it has a PWA that you can pin to your phone’s home menu.
They support North Korea for goodness sake. Being communists isn’t the problem, it’s that they support fascist dictatorships pretending to be communist.
Do you support president Washington? Did you know he was pro slavery? Far worse than having a dictatorship if you ask me.
Honestly I had to google who he was, because I fogot. I am British, not American, so he isn’t a big deal over hear. Technically he was an enemy of my country not that really matters.
I don’t particularly support him if that’s what you’re asking, as I have no reason to. He wasn’t the first person to implement a democracy, and the democracy he implemented wasn’t a true democracy to begin with. The ancient greeks did it thousands of years before him and fyi also had slaves.
Likewise, the communism Stalin implemented wasn’t true communism. Nobody gets it perfect the first time. But Washington is still praised as the founder of the USA, but Stalin is frowned upon 🤔. These are the double standards I’m talking about.
I don’t prasie Washington though. He just took what the Greeks did and made it worse.
Stalin should rightly be criticized. He took a great revolution and ruined it making people hate communism to this day.
Lenin and Trotsky weren’t that much better either before you start talking about them. Anyone remember Kronstadt?
You may not do that, but most of the US does… and everyone just hates Stalin for the things he did. Like no good could come out of that person. Maybe not good, but a good idea, sure, everyone has one from time to time.
No doubt there, he did a lot of things wrong, not to mention eliminating Lenin, but that’s beside the point. My point was, you’re obviously not stating the same about Washington or other western polititians that may have done even worse things.
And people don’t hate communism because of what Stalin did, they hate it because of a well thought of propaganda campaign made by the US. Sure, the USSR had one against capitalism as well, but it wasn’t as aggressive.
Good thing you mention Kronstadt. What you’re comparing is like the confederates having a rebellion (revolution) after the civil war, because they lost, and then wining about the unions kicking their buts. A certain social order/policy prevailed, deal with it… you wanna pick a fight with the bear again, don’t be surprised if it comes back to bite you… again.
Actually I do state these things. America bullies other nations all the time, and makes a pigs ear or it all the time too. See my comment about the Taliban, or how theg handled Vietnam. The US is almost as bad as the USSR, with the exception that they don’t kill their own people, only other people.
What you’re saying about Kronstadt dosen’t match what I have heard at all. They fought alongside each other in the revolution and then the Bolsheviks decided to bring in horrible undemocratic policies. The other groups protested this and where slaughtered at Kronstadt.
I mean TBF Washington didn’t write the constitution and it was politically untenable at the time to illegalize slavery (note: I don’t know if he was against slavery, but generally no matter who was president it would’ve been impossible).
Lemmygrad is specifically problematic for being predominantly Marxist Leninist (as the .ml suggests). I think you’re probably right that people just reject them outright because of AH THE COMMUNISTS WANT TO END CAPITALISM red scare type stuff present in Western countries, but where I specifically find Lemmygrad (and other tankies) being way too negative to interact with is when they get into defending Communist regimes.
If you asked the average Lemmygrad user, they too would be enveloped in propaganda, though this time coming from communist regimes and praxis they’ve read. They have been deluded into believing Stalin and Mao were good leaders, that authoritarianism is okay if it advances their favorite political agenda (though for some reason also claim that these countries aren’t authoritarian), and that these regimes should be implemented everywhere.
The worst of it all is their constant genocide denial. Yes, the USA and other Western countries have done a similar amount (maybe even more?) of really bad stuff in this area (e.g. natives, apartheids, roma, etc. 💀), but I think broadly a well educated Western citizen, especially a leftist one, should be able to understand and admit that what their country did was wrong and should never be done again. A Lemmygrad user instead defends things like the Uighur genocide and Holodomor, saying both that they don’t exist and are “western propaganda” while at the same time entertaining the counterfactual and saying if they did happen it was justified because the West did it too and they were being very mean to communism 😡.
When you get to that level of malevolent stupidity, you start to look more and more like a fascist that supports genocide and absolute power of the state and that uses strategic ambiguity to express your toxic beliefs, than you do a leftist. I don’t think anyone suggests we stay federated with a fascist instance because fascists are misunderstood after “years of propaganda pushed by western countries” to discredit Hitler and Mussolini, but here you are doing the moral equivalent.
Of course, that is how you spread ideas, through propaganda. That is how western countries did it as well. That is how we got here, to Lemmy, lol.
I have seen people judge, but have never experienced what it would be like living under the ruling of a benevolent dictator. I’m not saying Stalin or Mao were like that, I’m saying that I live in a country that used to be socialist and had a dictator like that… trust me when I say this, we were better of with what we had previously.
So, please first experiece first had what it is to live in both types of societies before you judge. Every story has 2 sides, so does this one.
I don’t think any of them actually deny that. They usually just compare those acts with what western countries have done. Go on and have a talk with them, none of them deny that. They know that they did terrible things, but try and debunk the western theories “russia bad, usa good”… thay all have sceletons in their closets, there is no denying that. You can’t keep an empire as large as the US or USSR afloat and not have done any bad deed to anyone, that’s just nuts. There will always be collateral damage.
George Washington was pro slavery, yet he’s still praised and printed on bills, right? So that’s normal, but this isn’t, lol.
Denying it is not OK. But, I get their stand point - the US denies doing soooo many things, why should we be any different 🤷. They’re cutting slack, why not us.
I still haven’t seen anyone deny those tjings, but if I do, even though I am a socialist by beliefs, I will most definitely confront them. Their beliefs are not mine and I would rather have the truth out than hide it under the carpet. BUT, the whole truth, not just one side of it. Let’s take everyone’s dirty laundry out, not just the USSRs or USes, both of them. Because people usually think that bodies are piled up on only side of the lawn, which is a lie of course.
Expressing absolute power in a state can sometimes be a good thing. Depends on a lot of things, but in certain countries/federations, it just works. I could state examples here, my own country being one of them, but it’ll just be too long of a post.
And you percieve them as toxic, I don’t. Why? IDK, I just don’t 🤷. Maybe it’s because my own beliefs allign in 90% of theirs.
Defederating is the issue here, not the content of that instance. You don’t like something, fine, block it. Lemmy has that option. I block communies I don’t like all the time, I have about 20 blocked ao far, why is that so hard, I really have bo idea.
I couldn’t care less if anyone stays federated with a faschist instance or not. It doesn’t make 1 single bit of difference. I don’t like it? I block it. It really is THAT simple 🤦.
In fact, I would even like to be federated with a faschist instance. Why? Meeh, might unblock it from time to time, just to troll them and get on their nerves.