Honestly, I’m so done. None of the YouTube videos are helpful. Some videos have projects that are so basic and lazy, some are very much tied to a specific platform, like Cloudflare, AWS and GCP, and some are so insanely difficult, I am not sure what project I’m supposed to do.
Some say: to-do projects are too basic. Some say that URL shortener is not worth it. Some say that real-time chat apps are overdone. There’s also front-end stuff, like React, Vue and Svelte. And if that’s not worse, there’s also opinionated answers, for back-end like for example, Rust being the future, avoiding JS or Python, or using niche backend like Phoenix or Laravel and micro-framework in some niche functional language. Then there’s also this low-code/no-code stuff. We’re also supposed to learn extras like Docker, Kubernetes, websockets, service workers and what-not other stuff.
I’ve wasted most of my time worrying about the stack and idea, that I’ve left them incomplete. What do I even make then as my project? A git hosting platform replica? A live-streaming social media? Almost like as if people are looking to hire a one-man army to handle the entire department. I’ve also completed the core lectures for FSO, but I’m still struggling.
Almost like as if people are looking to hire a one-man army to handle the entire department.
Not a hiring manager or a recruiter, but that’s exactly what full stack entails in most places. A company that’s looking for full stack is likely to be small and require wide skills. Otherwise, they would have dedicated teams for frontend/backend/devops.
If you want to avoid that, I’d recommend building a focus on frontend or backend (or devops/infra/sysadmin) depending on what you like more. I decided early on that I wanted to do backend, and I focused on projects and job applications that complimented my skillset. In my career, I’ve done work all across the stack (infra, frontend, backend) but I’d never call myself fullstack.
I like backend because it encompasses anything that’s not UI. Terminal applications, games, web APIs, FOSS contributions… All transferrable to backend skills. The rest of it is learning whatever web framework your company uses to build their services.
Almost like as if people are looking to hire a one-man army to handle the entire department.
Well yea, that’s usually the point of full stack. If you want to do something like that, you probably want to work a smaller scale company… Like if you’re in a team of 5 people, the situation arises of “Oh sysop thing needs to be done, who to ask? I guess @RonSijm (backend dev) is close enough…”
So to have a junior full stack is pretty counterintuitive. Otherwise the situation arises of “Oh xyz needs to be done, who to ask? - Well be have a dedicated senior backend engineer, a dedicated senior front-end engineer, dedicated senior sysops… ‘Oh let me ask @velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml, this junior full-stack’” - yea no.
Why are you aiming to be an intern/early-career full-stack engineer? The only kinda company I can think of where something like that would be something with barely any IT, where you’re just the “jack of all trades” goto guy for IT stuff - so that you can be the one-man army that does everything
So honestly I’d focus on one area first - backend, frontend, dev/sys-ops - especially as you’re mentioning
I’ve wasted most of my time worrying about the stack
Yea that gets even worse when you have worry about the entire stack, and work with an entire stack of components you’re not really familiar with. If you’re at least somewhat senior in one part - lets say backend - at least you’re in a position of “Ok, I have a backend that I’m comfortable about” - “Now lets see if I can make a frontend for it” - or - “Lets see if I can manage to dockerize this, and host it somewhere.”
And if you know the fundamentals of one stack-part first (data-structures, design patterns, best practices) - you can apply that knowledge to other areas and expand from there
Why are you aiming to be an intern/early-career full-stack engineer?
Because I’m applying to startups. The barrier to entry for corporate jobs is very high - what I mean is that there’s too much of us. In such situations, people will ask recruiters who happen to be their blood relatives or neighbors to recommend them. But I do not have that privilege. And the problem with startup is poor pay, with too much skill requirement. The poor pay is still understandable, but what’s understandable is the high skill requirement.
And the problem with startup is poor pay, with too much skill requirement.
Yea, that’s the problem with startups, they’re poor, so by their logic “we only have money for 1 person” - “so if we hire a full stack that does everything, that’s cheapest.” - “What is the cheapest dev? An intern / junior.” - "So what if we get a junior full stack :bigbrain: "
And then they create a vacancy for a CEO that can build their entire start-up and label it a junior-full-stack
Manager at a FAANG here. It sounds like you’ve been mostly talking to people at small companies who use terms like “code ninja.” I have no idea what they’re looking for, and I honestly doubt they do, either.
What I’m looking for is someone who can help me solve the problems that I have and that will be coming up. A candidate should be able to answer some basic questions about the programming language(s) they claim to know if they’re relevant to what I need (sometimes people will simply list everything they’ve heard of in an attempt to game resume scanners). They should be able to whiteboard an algorithm (like an elevator controller) on the fly and explain their thinking on it. They should be able to walk me through their resume work history and explain the projects they listed, as well as detailing their roles. I want to know who made the decisions on the project - the tech, architecture, implementation, and so on. I want to know what the candidate did, and what they’d do differently knowing what they now know. If they lost publications, I’m going to do the same (and I might skim at least the abstract). Basically I’m looking for someone I can be working with for at least the next five years, and who can continue to learn and grow.
Oh, and don’t list emacs (or in one notable case, “emax”) as a technical skill.
Oh, and don’t list emacs as a technical skill.
This is a personal attack
@SatanicNotMessianic
Too bad they missed an opportunity to write “dynamic functional programming (elisp)”
What do I even make then as my project?
I always just write another dice roller, or a Magic: The Gathering life tracker.
The world will never have enough of either of those. /s
Joking aside, make something you have some use for. Yes, your version will be inferior to better projects that already exist. But it will be yours, and you’ll learn a ton by using it and building it and using it and rebuilding it.
And when you abandon it, you’ll still have the experience you gained, and some code you know really well, that you can talk about.
As a hiring manager, I just want to read some of your code.
Your code doesn’t have to impress me, to get hired. Frankly, it’s quite unlikely to.
If I’m hiring for a junior role, I need to get a sense of where you are in your learning journey. Reading some of your code, and talking with you about it, helps with that.
a solid humiliation kink
Know your basics, display ability to learn. Don’t lie and tell the truth. It doesn’t really matter for Intern if you have any project behind you. Being fullstack is really hard and at times very impossible and require immense amount of time and effort. So show that you can learn and show that you are honest. This will land you a good place.
To be full stack requires lots of experience. Anyone telling you otherwise is probably trying to sell you a course.
Start with either backend or frontend, not both.
