love how that guy who climbed the fence and got shot by his own guys on the walk back wasn’t considered a terrorist by the media despite 1) being a lone wolf and 2) not operating as part of an authorised military action. I suppose that latter point is because all Israeli’s take part in an authorised military action as an occupying force every second of every day.
I mean, Jewish people originally heralded from around the eastern Mediterranean, middle east? That would make them historically middle eastern rather than western. Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?
Let’s set aside the multiple issues with “I think one of my distant ancestors lived here 2000 years ago, or maybe just other members of my religious group, therefore I have a right to live here today” and assume that yes, that sort of historical/ancestral claim gives comtemporary Jewish people a right to live in Palestine. Even in the most generous light imaginable, it would not give them a right to build an ethnostate by committing genocide on the current inhabitants. Israel is so far past anything that could be reasonably granted from ancient Jews living in Palestine that there is no possible defense along those lines.
Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?
Yes, that’s what people mean when they refer to Israel as a colony of Europe/the U.S.
Israel is making it’s own decisions and will happily shrug off any criticism from the Western powers
There has been zero sincere criticism from the West. If you circumvent Congress to give Israel more money and openly state you are unconditionally supporting it, I don’t buy it if you leak a story about being furious with them behind closed doors. You shouldn’t, either.
The giant gaping hole in calling Israel a “western colony” is that it has no homeland. It’s not a British colony, or a French colony, or a colony of any other country. If Israel as a country stops existing, the vast majority of its citizens don’t have citizenship in any other country and have literally nowhere else to go. Therefore it’s not a colony and it’s not colonialism, it’s an independent country.
Sure I was born in Britain with British citizenship, but I identify as Middle Eastern so I should be granted somebody else’s land where they are currently living.
These people should be blasted into fucking space if they need a homeland so badly. Zionism cannot even exist without the antisemitic belief in a fifth column. Are Jews an alien element in Western society, or do they belong to the societies in which they were born?
I will tell you this: Middle Eastern people do not eat schnitzel.
When the British expelled criminals to Australia they couldn’t return home. Was Australia not a colony? A ton of European immigrants to the American colonies intended their journeys to be one-way trips, and were functionally barred from returning by cost. Does that mean there were no colonies in the Americas?
Besides, throughout history you almost never see settlers leaving en masse when colonial administrations end. Sure, some recent arrivees may turn around, and some administrators who moved there mostly to work in the colonial government may leave, but you really never see the main body of settlers leave. You didn’t even have this in South Africa. They simply have to live under a government where they can’t shoot the locals with impunity.
That doesn’t really address the point though… Israel is independent, and was so from the start. It’s not bound to any other western country’s rule, which is the first requirement for being a colony.
the vast majority of its citizens don’t have citizenship in any other country and have literally nowhere else to go. Therefore it’s not a colony
It directly refutes this.
If you’re leaning on Israel being formally independent, they’re about as independent from the West (particularly the U.S.) as a college freshman getting their tuition paid by Mom and Dad. No one here is talking about Israel being independent on paper, we’re talking about how it interacts with other countries in reality.
You know that many Israelis did come from anglosphere or now-EU states, right? It’s not like it’s just a new social formation of people who already lived in the region.
I declare all of Sweden a homeland for the oppressed Stalinists (I have an incredibly remote connection to Norse settlers along with almost everyone else in my country)
It’s a project overwhelmingly lead by western states that has resulted in a huge importing of people who were born and raised in western states pretending they are indigenous to the region. If not for the west, Israel would neither have the resources to maintain its colonial project nor the population needed for occupying Palestine.
Apparently the mods deleted my comment because they didn’t like me pointing out that this guy’s entire post history is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s genocide of Uyghur Muslims, even though his entire post history is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s genocide of Uyghur Muslims.
Just for the record, this poster is from Zionist instance Lemmyworld, loves Marvel US military propaganda, hates Russia and pretends to love Uyghurs while being okay with Palestine genocide.
It’s meant to relate the two, which is reasonable since both have the goal of getting Jewish people out of Europe, zionists were supported by antisemites, and there are lots of actual straight up nazis in the “israeli” military.
The only terrorists here are the “israeli” militants.
love how that guy who climbed the fence and got shot by his own guys on the walk back wasn’t considered a terrorist by the media despite 1) being a lone wolf and 2) not operating as part of an authorised military action. I suppose that latter point is because all Israeli’s take part in an authorised military action as an occupying force every second of every day.
Why is “Israeli” in quotes?
Cuz words like that are usually used for countries, while “israel” is just a western colony in Palestine.
I mean, Jewish people originally heralded from around the eastern Mediterranean, middle east? That would make them historically middle eastern rather than western. Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?
Let’s set aside the multiple issues with “I think one of my distant ancestors lived here 2000 years ago, or maybe just other members of my religious group, therefore I have a right to live here today” and assume that yes, that sort of historical/ancestral claim gives comtemporary Jewish people a right to live in Palestine. Even in the most generous light imaginable, it would not give them a right to build an ethnostate by committing genocide on the current inhabitants. Israel is so far past anything that could be reasonably granted from ancient Jews living in Palestine that there is no possible defense along those lines.
Yes, that’s what people mean when they refer to Israel as a colony of Europe/the U.S.
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Should the Nazis have “defended” themselves against the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
Did apartheid South Africa have a right to defend itself? Did Rhodesia? Did French Algeria?
No. Regimes like these have one right: The right to be thrown in the dustbin of history and to be replaced by a more just order.
There has been zero sincere criticism from the West. If you circumvent Congress to give Israel more money and openly state you are unconditionally supporting it, I don’t buy it if you leak a story about being furious with them behind closed doors. You shouldn’t, either.
Why should they have a right to defend themselves? It would be more ethical if they all killed themselves.
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The giant gaping hole in calling Israel a “western colony” is that it has no homeland. It’s not a British colony, or a French colony, or a colony of any other country. If Israel as a country stops existing, the vast majority of its citizens don’t have citizenship in any other country and have literally nowhere else to go. Therefore it’s not a colony and it’s not colonialism, it’s an independent country.
Oh like Palestine?
Yes, like Palestine. I don’t believe that was in doubt.
Sure I was born in Britain with British citizenship, but I identify as Middle Eastern so I should be granted somebody else’s land where they are currently living.
These people should be blasted into fucking space if they need a homeland so badly. Zionism cannot even exist without the antisemitic belief in a fifth column. Are Jews an alien element in Western society, or do they belong to the societies in which they were born?
I will tell you this: Middle Eastern people do not eat schnitzel.
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What the fuck is wrong with you
Zionist “A land without a people for a people without a land” bullshit.
“Your honor, I only stole some of what I’m accused of stealing, not all of it” is not a great defense
When the British expelled criminals to Australia they couldn’t return home. Was Australia not a colony? A ton of European immigrants to the American colonies intended their journeys to be one-way trips, and were functionally barred from returning by cost. Does that mean there were no colonies in the Americas?
Besides, throughout history you almost never see settlers leaving en masse when colonial administrations end. Sure, some recent arrivees may turn around, and some administrators who moved there mostly to work in the colonial government may leave, but you really never see the main body of settlers leave. You didn’t even have this in South Africa. They simply have to live under a government where they can’t shoot the locals with impunity.
That doesn’t really address the point though… Israel is independent, and was so from the start. It’s not bound to any other western country’s rule, which is the first requirement for being a colony.
It directly refutes this.
If you’re leaning on Israel being formally independent, they’re about as independent from the West (particularly the U.S.) as a college freshman getting their tuition paid by Mom and Dad. No one here is talking about Israel being independent on paper, we’re talking about how it interacts with other countries in reality.
You know that many Israelis did come from anglosphere or now-EU states, right? It’s not like it’s just a new social formation of people who already lived in the region.
We’ve got a mental gymnast here
Germany never underwent denazification.
Elaborate.
There were still nazis in positions of government who held their positions until they died.
The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
Can I just lay claim to random pieces of land in Africa? I mean all people came from there at one point right?
I appreciate the attempt.
I declare all of Sweden a homeland for the oppressed Stalinists (I have an incredibly remote connection to Norse settlers along with almost everyone else in my country)
It’s a project overwhelmingly lead by western states that has resulted in a huge importing of people who were born and raised in western states pretending they are indigenous to the region. If not for the west, Israel would neither have the resources to maintain its colonial project nor the population needed for occupying Palestine.
Apparently the mods deleted my comment because they didn’t like me pointing out that this guy’s entire post history is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s genocide of Uyghur Muslims, even though his entire post history is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s genocide of Uyghur Muslims.
Don’t you think that’s odd?
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Just for the record, this poster is from Zionist instance Lemmyworld, loves Marvel US military propaganda, hates Russia and pretends to love Uyghurs while being okay with Palestine genocide.
I knew that LW admins were trying to make the place into a nazi bar but they seriously going full zionist already? Dammmn!
I remember seeing an actual, genocide denying zionazi in that instance with the fucking zionist flag in their username
Not surprised one bit.
The term Zionazi implies the Zionism isn’t enough on its own, but take my uovotr nevertheless.
It’s meant to relate the two, which is reasonable since both have the goal of getting Jewish people out of Europe, zionists were supported by antisemites, and there are lots of actual straight up nazis in the “israeli” military.
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