- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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“They could have surrendered a long time ago and saved us from all this suffering,” said the woman, who asked not to be named for fear of possible retribution if her criticism were made public.
Can’t tell if actual sentiment of a Gazan refugee or NYT bs’ing again.
If there’s one thing worse than getting ruled by Hamas, that’s Hamas unconditionally surrendering to Israel. What do you think would happen to Gaza’s borders if Netanyahu could do whatever the hell he wanted without insurgences nor opposition?
All my support to Gazans for them to regain their own self-determination and democracy, but this might be the worst possible moment for Hamas to disappear from existence.
Something else will just pop up in its place. A lot of people who never supported Hamas had their lives ruined and want revenge against both Israel and Hamas.
Sure, but in the meantime, Israel would have the capacity to do absolutely anything they want, which would permanently cripple Gazans. If you want proof, look at the settlers in the West Bank, who have been eating Palestinian territory uninterrupted because the Palestinian Authority plays nice with them, even though they’re criminals.
Well then where is Hamas on the West Bank if it’s about protecting Palestine?
Are you daft? “Well where is the UN on Xinjiang protecting the Uyghurs if it’s about protecting human rights?” Not all organizations have the means to achieve their goals. Think for two seconds before posting shit.
Whataboutism.
I’m not attacking the UN, I’m establishing the comparison that explains why neither can do all they want so that you can understand why the argument makes sense. My mistake, because I assumed you did actually have working brain cells.
Hamas exists in the West Bank, and they are starting to try to build out tunnels there too.
Ridiculous. In fact, Gaza will not have self-determination or democracy until Hamas is destroyed to the man.
NY Times are so biased in this conflict.
Care to offer a source you find unbiased?
Or maybe you just disagree because you don’t know enough about this?
Both Hamas and Fatah are corrupt. However, it is impossible to have a free and fair democratic election under an Apartheid State. The Apartheid must end first before it is possible for Palestinians to have a free and fair election.
Hamas does torture and kill political rivals, and has been exposed for corruption. Fatah is also corrupt, seen as working at the behest of Israel at the expense of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Both have been funded by Israel as part of a Divide and Conquer tactic. Israel also has a long history of assassinating more moderate and leftist political Palestinian rivals.
Hamas Victory Driven By Desire To End Corruption WPO
Hamas Political Violence in Gaza - HRW 2009
Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict - Amnesty
Gaza: Journalist facing prison term for exposing corruption in Hamas-controlled ministry - Amnesty
Palestinians furious and fed up with corruption of Abbas’s ‘mafia’ PA - MEE
“Divide and Rule”: How Israel Helped Start Hamas to Weaken Palestinian Hopes for Statehood - DemocracyNow
Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations – review - The Guardian
The fucking gall to blame Israel for Hamas torturing and murdering Palestinians.
Israel is to blame for the Apartheid, yes. Israel has also never stopped torturing or murdering Palestinians themselves, not that you care.
Hamas is obviously responsible for their own crimes against humanity, which have been reported by human rights organizations.
This is an analysis of the corruption within Hamas and Fatah. The existence of both are directly due to the violent Settler Colonialism and Apartheid. On top of that, Israel has funded both as a divide and conquer strategy.
If you don’t like either, which is reasonable as neither do the majority of Palestinians, you need to support an end to the Apartheid in order for Palestinians to have a free and fair election. This isn’t a difficult concept.
israel gets some of the blame for funding hamas and building them up when they needed them to take out the plo
hamas gets some of the blame for using terrorism as a weapon and attacking israeli citizens while neglecting gazans
Source on Israel funding Hamas?
My understanding is they allowed money to pass from Qatar to Hamas, but never directly funded them.
‘Buying quiet’: Inside the Israeli plan that propped up Hamas - Irish Times
For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip – money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu had not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.
Allowing the payments – billions of dollars over roughly a decade – was a gamble by Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the October 7th attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting.
As far back as December 2012, Netanyahu told prominent Israeli journalist Dan Margalit that it was important to keep Hamas strong, as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Margalit, in an interview, said Netanyahu told him that having two strong rivals, including Hamas, would lessen pressure on him to negotiate toward a Palestinian state.
“The conception of Netanyahu over a decade and a half was that if we buy quiet and pretend the problem isn’t there, we can wait it out and it will fade away,” said Eyal Hulata, Israel’s national security adviser from July 2021 until the beginning of this year.
Qatar’s work in Gaza during this period was blessed by the Israeli government. And Netanyahu even lobbied Washington on Qatar’s behalf. In 2017, as Republicans pushed to impose financial sanctions on Qatar over its support for Hamas, he dispatched senior intelligence officials to Washington. The Israelis told US lawmakers that Qatar had played a positive role in the Gaza Strip, according to three people familiar with the trip.
Israel’s goal was “to ensure that the next confrontation between Israel and Hamas will be the final showdown”, he wrote in the memo, dated December 21st, 2016. A pre-emptive strike, he said, could remove most of the “leadership of the military wing of Hamas”.
So basically it’s what I said? Israel did not give money to Hamas, but did allow money to flow from the Qatari government to them.
The result may have been the same, but I think it’s fair to say Israel didn’t fund Hamas right?
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Israel props them up
Can we blame them for torturing Palestinians when they do it themselves?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67581915
How about all those Palestinian children they murdered?
Why the fuck is a mod so active in the comments trying to enter into arguments with people?
He’s just making sure nobody is trash talking Hamas.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In interviews with nearly a dozen Gaza residents in recent months, a number of them said they held Hamas responsible for starting the war and helping to bring death and destruction upon them, even as they blame Israel first and foremost.
Some of the Gazans who spoke to The New York Times said that Hamas knew it would be starting a devastating war with Israel that would cause heavy civilian casualties, but that it did not provide any food, water or shelter to help people survive it.
Hamas leaders have said they wanted to ignite a permanent state of war with Israel on all fronts as a way to revive the Palestinian cause and knew that the Israeli response would be big.
In March, the well-known Gaza photojournalist Motaz Azaiza caused a brief social media firestorm when he obliquely criticized Hamas after he left the territory.
He was one of a handful of young local journalists who rose to international prominence early in the war for documenting the death and destruction on social media.
And some residents of the territory have long felt that during each new round of war between Hamas and Israel, the group is seeking to raise its global profile and champion more universal Palestinian causes at the expense of ordinary Gazans.
The original article contains 1,698 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 87%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I’d rather argue they are willing to do so - in the hope for permanent ceasefire and peace. Anything to stop the bombing, dying, starvation and everything else.
Israel has no intent to stop the bombing and starvation. That’s why they have rejected any permanent ceasefire in exchange for hostages and insisted on only temporary ceasefires
Let’s be honest though: if Israel stopped bombing immediately, do you think Hamas would stop randomly bombing and mortaring Israel? Sure, Israel is fucked up, but there’s a certain point where Palestine needs to realize they’ll never have peace with Hamas always looking to fight someone. It’s like complaining about the crime in your neighbor but you refuse to tell the cops where the local drug house is even with all the anonymity that technology offers.
Let’s be honest though: if Israel stopped bombing immediately, do you think Hamas would stop randomly bombing and mortaring Israel? Sure, Israel is fucked up, but there’s a certain point where Palestine needs to realize they’ll never have peace with Hamas always looking to fight someone. It’s like complaining about the crime in your neighbor but you refuse to tell the cops where the local drug house is even with all the anonymity that technology offers.
do you think Hamas would stop randomly bombing and mortaring Israel?
No, of course they would not. They’re fighting to get their land, homes and human rights back and Israel is preventing all of it.
It’s like complaining about the crime in your neighbor but you refuse to tell the cops where the local drug house is even with all the anonymity that technology offers.
This argument is absurd. Because Israel started the entire conflict in 1948 (together with Britian if I remember correctly by ‘‘giving’’ the land).
Israel became an actual state in 1948 by displacing 750 000 Palestinian people and murdering many (men, women and children). Laying sieges, bombarding villages and population centers, setting fires to homes, properties and goods. Planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled people from returning (source: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by ilan Pappé).
Hamas did not exist until 1987, they became an actual group only in 1987 because of all the horrifying things Israel had done from 1948 up until 1987. Which is approximately 40 years after what Israel had done to the Palestinian people.
If Israel never done any of this, Hamas would not even exist. They merely became an actual group to get normal human condition. Israel went hard into that and thus Hamas become more and more aggresive. Do I agree with their methods? Definitely not but it is understandable. If peaceful revolution is not possible, violence revolution is inevitable. Push a person or a group enough and this will happen.
Since almost all countries are turning a blind eye, what do you want Hamas to do (Wait, get humiliated and die)?
Also peace without Hamas? What peace are you talking about? Do you mean this kind of “peace”;
- Strapped down, blindfolded, held in diapers: Israeli whistleblowers detail abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center.
- Death toll in Israeli attack on displaced Palestinians in Rafah rises to 45.
- Israeli forces’ systemic denial of fair trial rights to Palestinian child prisoners amounts to arbitrary detention.
- Israel prevents hundreds of worshippers from entering Al-Aqsa on first night of Ramadan.
- Israel’s PM Netanyahu ‘proud’ of preventing establishment of a Palestinian state.
- Far-right minister says nuking Gaza an option, PM suspends him from cabinet meetings.
- Israel Defense Minister Calls Palestinians ‘Human Animals’ Amid Israeli Aggression.
- Video shows Israeli settler trying to take over Palestinian house.
Hamas even said they would lay down their weapons if an independent Palestinian state is established.
- Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established
EDIT: instead of downvoting, I’d love to hear a counter argument (from people, I haven’t blocked. Saw someone commented but must’ve been someone I blocked. Because, I can’t see/ open the comment). And if you do, give reliable sources otherwise it is just an opinion.
The earliest recorded history on this land that you are saying belongs to Hamas was written in Hebrew by Israelites.
And Hamas knows this, because when they dig tunnels and find old artifacts which reflect the Israelite history, Hamas intentionally destroys them.
Israel has destroyed over 300 historical sites in Gaza in just the last year
As usual, you post an irrelevant link and say nothing to address the point I made, which refuted the lie you told. How do you even get yourself out of your house in the morning?
If Israel stopped bombing immediately and there were assurances Israel would actually follow the UN ceasefire plan? Yes. Palestine has been under Israeli Occupation since 1967, Settler Colonialism is incompatible with peace. Hamas and the Israeli Government being held accountable for their war crimes and a plan to dismantle the Apartheid is necessary. I don’t see any way towards lasting peace besides a Bi-National One-State Solution
After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.
Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ
History of peace process - The Intercept
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
- Avi Shlaim
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
What a nonsense conspiracy theory.
Israel has rejected Hamas’s ridiculous offerings for “peace” because there will not be peace in Gaza until Hamas surrenders or is destroyed. On what planet do you think anyone is going to give terrorists their own state?
What part of the Three-phase plan from the UN Resolution do you find ridiculous? Apartheid is maintained by terrorizing civilians
Phase one includes an “immediate, full, and complete ceasefire with the release of hostages including women, the elderly and the wounded, the return of the remains of some hostages who have been killed, and the exchange of Palestinian prisoners”.
It calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from “populated areas” of Gaza, the return of Palestinians to their homes and neighbourhoods throughout the enclave, including in the north, as well as the safe and effective distribution of humanitarian assistance at scale.
Phase two would see a permanent end to hostilities “in exchange for the release of all other hostages still in Gaza, and a full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza”.
In phase three, “a major multi-year reconstruction plan for Gaza” would begin and the remains of any deceased hostages still in the Strip would be returned to Israel.
The Council also underlined the proposal’s provision that if negotiations take longer than six weeks for phase one, the ceasefire will continue as long as negotiations continue. No territorial change
In the resolution, the Security Council rejects any attempt at demographic or territorial change in the Gaza Strip, including any actions that reduce the territory of the enclave.
The part where Israel withdraws all its troops. Lol. Palestine may someday be a real state, but it’s not going to include Gaza. Hamas forfeited Gaza last fall.
Israel is currently engaging in genocide and you want them to continue occupying Gaza, that’s insane
Who else is going to govern Gaza? Not like anyone living there has any experience running a legitimate government. They don’t even have the equipment to rebuild. Egypt isn’t going to do it.
If you believe Gaza has anything less than at least 4 years of Martial law in its immediate future, I think that’s insane. It’s self delusion.
Israel commits Genocide
New York Times writes an article to blame Hamas
can we ban this propaganda outlet.
Thanks for not reading the article!
So… let’s get this straight-
You want something banned that you disagree with, but clearly didn’t bother to read it- yet you get banned constantly for misinformation from not only this instance, but many others as well…
How exactly do you think that is going to work?
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This is… this is really antisemitic… right? And Islamophobic…?
This is definitely some nazi shit
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Removed, trolling.
I’m so curious about those two downvotes
Every time a mod does anything official, they get downvoted.
Cry more Nazi
Removed, overt racism.
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