Your counter argument is “Well the shitty decision is more popular so.”?
There are 7.6 million Jewish Americans who still heavily lean in support of Israeli actions.
Then shame them for being shitty people. Don’t shame progressives and leftists for refusing to cater to it. Your accusation that refusing to vote for Biden is support for Putin and Trump is equally damning whether Biden continues to send weapons to Israel or not. Those who would refuse to support Biden if he stopped sending weapons to Israel are just as guilty. The difference is they want to keep bombing people.
Direct your shame and finger wagging to the people who actually deserve it.
Your counter argument is “Well the shitty decision is more popular so.”?
My counter-argument is actually: The shitty decision is more popular, and it prevents the even-shittier decision from playing out next year, should the other guy win.
The good news is that Biden has clearly pivoted in recent months, going from being lockstep with Netanyahu to calling out the indiscriminate bombing and having a public tussle with them now. In fact they’ve moved more on this issue than I expected, abstaining from their veto-power and outright calling Israel’s actions indiscriminate.
But it’s a curious thing, your dodging my question: Just one legit (or illegitimate false-flag) terrorist attack post-revocation of aid to Israel — and tell me, what happens to Biden and Democrats’ chances then…?
Then shame them for being shitty people. Don’t shame progressives and leftists for refusing to cater to it. Your accusation that refusing to vote for Biden is support for Putin and Trump is equally damning whether Biden continues to send weapons to Israel or not. Those who would refuse to support Biden if he stopped sending weapons to Israel are just as guilty. The difference is they want to keep bombing people.
I’m all for trying to convince them, which is clearly what the Biden administration is softly trying to do. Too hard, and you know enough from internet arguments how people double-down blindly to safe face. That doesn’t change the fact of the current polling.
So here’s a thought: it goes both ways — Why don’t YOU shame them for being shitty people instead of expecting Biden to do anything differently until those people actually SHIFT their positions? I mean isn’t it extremely ironic you say this as you finger-wag at Biden doing Democratic things in a Democracy?
So here’s a thought: it goes both ways — Why don’t YOU shame them for being shitty people instead of expecting Biden to do anything differently until those people actually SHIFT their positions? I mean isn’t it extremely ironic you say this as you finger-wag at Biden doing Democratic things in a Democracy?
But it doesn’t go both ways.
Progressives and leftists are simultaneously “the minority” in every single policy disagreement. There is not a single example of Biden making material compromises with progressives and leftists in his entire term because the threat is always “the polls don’t say that’s the way to go”.
So then after 4 years of being pushed aside Every. Single. Time. if Biden loses who will be blamed? Moderates? Liberals? War mongers? Nope. Those darn progressives and leftists.
Despite having zero material influence on policy we are handed 100% responsibility for every failure. It’s fucking bullshit.
Dude Biden and AOC both disagree with you. He clearly has compromised with progressives and been more progressive than probably any president in 40 years.
Literally every single social and economic progressive act had come through Democrats. It may not he as fast as you want but at least it happened unlike wishful thinking.
Biden wasn’t even my 3rd choice and I hear your frustrations on wishing more could be done, but it’s just not feasible until we actually change the rules of the game and kick the GOP to the curb for good.
You argued to me to stop finger-wagging at progressives and focus on the problem. All I’m saying is to do the same. Stop finger-wagging at Biden and influence the polls. Influence the Jewish Americans and I promise you the second you shift their stance you’ll see a reflection in the a Biden Administration’s approach.
Because his team of advisors and strategists with more experience and insider polling data than you or me are doing exactly this.
You argued to me to stop finger-wagging at progressives and focus on the problem. All I’m saying is to do the same. Stop finger-wagging at Biden and influence the polls. Influence the Jewish Americans and I promise you the second you shift their stance you’ll see a reflection in the a Biden Administration’s approach.
NO.
I have done enough. I am walking away from a pro-corporate trash candidate, a pro-corporate trash party and all the liberal and moderate voters who are so fucking happy with pro-corporate trash.
If they want my vote then they can do the work for once in their fucking lives. If that’s too much to ask of them then their precious “Democracy” must not be that important to them. I’m out. I’m voting 3rd party.
Then such a person is a hypocrite. You tell me to stop finger-wagging and then proceed to do precisely the same thing. I don’t know what to say. Can’t be more obvious.
YOU:
“Stop finger-wagging progressives; focus on changing the opinion of Jewish Americans!”
ME:
“Stop finger-wagging Biden; focus on changing the opinions of Jewish Americans!”
You’re trying to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard than everybody else. You’re insisting we have to vote for someone acting against our interests while excusing others for signaling they wouldn’t vote for Biden if he did.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Your polling calculus only holds up if people like me show up to vote for Biden. So I’ll change that calculus: I’m voting 3rd party.
See? Now you can go deal with the people who insist Biden keep sending weapons to Israel. It’s not my problem anymore.
If progressives are smarter and more informed than everyone else, then yes I hold them to a higher standard. I’m one of them, and yes I hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else.
So I’ll change that calculus: I’m voting 3rd party.
And in doing so, you’ll doom Ukrainian women and children, as well as Palestinian women and children because of your pouting for years to come and that disgusts me. But go for it. I can’t teach morality over Lemmy.
If progressives are smarter and more informed than everyone else, then yes I hold them to a higher standard. I’m one of them, and yes I hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else.
Lol that’s even worse! Not only are you holding us to a different standard you’re spending your time and energy lecturing people like me instead of doing the very thing you told me to do.
focus on changing the opinions of Jewish Americans
Your counter argument is “Well the shitty decision is more popular so.”?
Then shame them for being shitty people. Don’t shame progressives and leftists for refusing to cater to it. Your accusation that refusing to vote for Biden is support for Putin and Trump is equally damning whether Biden continues to send weapons to Israel or not. Those who would refuse to support Biden if he stopped sending weapons to Israel are just as guilty. The difference is they want to keep bombing people.
Direct your shame and finger wagging to the people who actually deserve it.
The good news is that Biden has clearly pivoted in recent months, going from being lockstep with Netanyahu to calling out the indiscriminate bombing and having a public tussle with them now. In fact they’ve moved more on this issue than I expected, abstaining from their veto-power and outright calling Israel’s actions indiscriminate.
But it’s a curious thing, your dodging my question: Just one legit (or illegitimate false-flag) terrorist attack post-revocation of aid to Israel — and tell me, what happens to Biden and Democrats’ chances then…?
I’m all for trying to convince them, which is clearly what the Biden administration is softly trying to do. Too hard, and you know enough from internet arguments how people double-down blindly to safe face. That doesn’t change the fact of the current polling.
So here’s a thought: it goes both ways — Why don’t YOU shame them for being shitty people instead of expecting Biden to do anything differently until those people actually SHIFT their positions? I mean isn’t it extremely ironic you say this as you finger-wag at Biden doing Democratic things in a Democracy?
But it doesn’t go both ways.
Progressives and leftists are simultaneously “the minority” in every single policy disagreement. There is not a single example of Biden making material compromises with progressives and leftists in his entire term because the threat is always “the polls don’t say that’s the way to go”.
So then after 4 years of being pushed aside Every. Single. Time. if Biden loses who will be blamed? Moderates? Liberals? War mongers? Nope. Those darn progressives and leftists.
Despite having zero material influence on policy we are handed 100% responsibility for every failure. It’s fucking bullshit.
Dude Biden and AOC both disagree with you. He clearly has compromised with progressives and been more progressive than probably any president in 40 years.
Literally every single social and economic progressive act had come through Democrats. It may not he as fast as you want but at least it happened unlike wishful thinking.
Biden wasn’t even my 3rd choice and I hear your frustrations on wishing more could be done, but it’s just not feasible until we actually change the rules of the game and kick the GOP to the curb for good.
You argued to me to stop finger-wagging at progressives and focus on the problem. All I’m saying is to do the same. Stop finger-wagging at Biden and influence the polls. Influence the Jewish Americans and I promise you the second you shift their stance you’ll see a reflection in the a Biden Administration’s approach.
Because his team of advisors and strategists with more experience and insider polling data than you or me are doing exactly this.
NO.
I have done enough. I am walking away from a pro-corporate trash candidate, a pro-corporate trash party and all the liberal and moderate voters who are so fucking happy with pro-corporate trash.
If they want my vote then they can do the work for once in their fucking lives. If that’s too much to ask of them then their precious “Democracy” must not be that important to them. I’m out. I’m voting 3rd party.
Then such a person is a hypocrite. You tell me to stop finger-wagging and then proceed to do precisely the same thing. I don’t know what to say. Can’t be more obvious.
YOU:
ME:
YOU:
…???
You’re trying to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard than everybody else. You’re insisting we have to vote for someone acting against our interests while excusing others for signaling they wouldn’t vote for Biden if he did.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Your polling calculus only holds up if people like me show up to vote for Biden. So I’ll change that calculus: I’m voting 3rd party.
See? Now you can go deal with the people who insist Biden keep sending weapons to Israel. It’s not my problem anymore.
If progressives are smarter and more informed than everyone else, then yes I hold them to a higher standard. I’m one of them, and yes I hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else.
And in doing so, you’ll doom Ukrainian women and children, as well as Palestinian women and children because of your pouting for years to come and that disgusts me. But go for it. I can’t teach morality over Lemmy.
Lol that’s even worse! Not only are you holding us to a different standard you’re spending your time and energy lecturing people like me instead of doing the very thing you told me to do.
You go do that.