- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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Israel is not only starving Gazans, they’ve BEEN starving Gazans for DECADES.
That’s been the whole point of the blockade.
This is genocide denial plain and simple.
Also remember that whenever anyone tries to tell you that you shouldn’t be bringing up Biden’s genocide support because it might hurt his chances in the US election, they are also doing genocide denial. They are genocide deniers.
They may not be denying that the genocide is happening, they’re just denying that we should talk about it. They’re denying its importance.
And sure, Trump would probably be worse at this, so vote. But if Biden genuinely needs widespread genocide denial to win then that is not only not an acceptable thing to ask of voters, it is also unhinged. People know about the genocide, they know Biden is dragging his feet on the issue and pretending that’s not happening just to protect him makes his case look extremely weak.
If you really think that no amount of denouncement and excoriation will influence him to stop supporting genocide then again, you are saying awful things about him without realising it.
Why does Biden support genocide?
Because he’s a self-proclaimed Zionist and the end goal of Zionism has always been genocide. Now, why is he a Zionist? shrugs
Zionism doesn’t imply Genocide
The fact is, however, that they impinge— as they always have— on the Arab residents of the territories, and then they have a distinct cutting edge to them. Both in theory and in practice their effectiveness lies in how they Judaize territory coterminously with de-Arabizing it. There is privileged evidence of this fact, I think, in what Joseph Weitz had to say. From 1932 on, Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund; in 1965 his diaries and papers, My Diary, and Letters to the Children, were published in Israel. On December 19, 1940, he wrote:
_“. . . after the Second World War the question of the land of Israel and the question of the Jews would be raised beyond the framework of “ development”; amongst ourselves. !t must be clear that there is no room for hoth peoples in this country. No ‘development’ will bring us closer to our aim. To be an independent people in this small country. If the Arabs leave the country, it will be broad and wide-open for us. And if the Arabs stay, the country will remain narrow and miserable.
When the War is over and the English have won, and when the judges sit on the throne of Law, our people must bring theirpetitions and their claim before them; and the only solution is Eretz Israel, or at least Western Eretz Israel, without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point! The Zionist enterprise so far, in terms of preparing the ground and paving the way for the creation of the Hebrew State in the land of Israel, has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘‘land-buying ’— but this will not bring about the State of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a Salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer them all: except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a singlevillage, not a single tribe. And the transfer must be directed to Iraq, to Syria, and even to Transjordan. For that purpose we’ll find money, and a lot of money. And only with such a transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers, and the Jewish question shall be solved, once and for all. There is no other way out."_These are not only prophetic remarks about what was going to happen; they are also policy statements, in which Weitz spoke with the voice of the Zionist consensus. There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists, beginning with Herzl. and when ‘salvation’ came it was with those ideas in mind that the conquest of Palestine, and the eviction of its Arabs, was carried out.
~The Question of Palestine, Edward Said
There’s literally dozens of other quotes like this one from people instrumental in the founding of Israel in this chapter, and they are similarly genocidal. It was honestly pretty transparent what they were going for.
The existence of Zionists who wish to erase Palestine (of which there are many) does not change the situation.
The end goal of a Jewish homeland has always been genocide of Arabs?
I suspect that isn’t true but am willing to read whatever you are basing this claim off of.
Well, when you want to establish your homeland somewhere that people are already living, yeah it takes displacement. But they’re not just displacing them, they’re killing them.
Trusting Google results? In the days of the LLM takeover? Nah
You don’t trust the Google result for defining a word? Really? You think this is an LLM mediated result? Really?
Where else were the survivors of the holocaust credibly being offered the establishment of their own government beside their actual homeland?
If being a victim of the Holocaust entitles you to your own government, how comes you’ve never argued for establishing a homeland of the Romani people?
What are you suggesting should have been done with the Jewish survivors if returning to their homeland itself is unacceptable to you?
For a person born in Germany, raised in Germany, taught to speak, read and write German, their homeland is Germany. German Jewish victims of the Holocaust ought to have been extraordinarily repaired, and given the pleasure of seeing their victimizers fallen in disgrace, tried, condemned and punished (part of which did happen), not told to pack their bags and leave to a country they’ve never set a foot in. The idea that someone who’s born in a specific ethnic group has their “homeland” at some special, historical place is an extremely ideological view that has much more to do with nazism than with the ideals of freedom and human rights.
By the way, you haven’t answered my question. In your racist worldview that ethnicities belong to specific strips of land, where do the Romani belong?
Ethnic nationalism is just racism, whether practiced by white supremacist MAGA Americans or Holocaust survivors. In a liberal democracy, the government serves all people regardless of race. I’m confused by your premise that Holocaust survivors were entitled to their own ethnic state for some reason.
Also, the Zionist movement was not a response to the Holocaust. It was a colonial enterprise that began well before the Holocaust in response to widespread persecution especially in Central Europe. Many Jews opposed the Jewish nationalism undergirding Zionism for the same reasons liberals today reject virtually all nationalist movements. Many emigrated to liberal democracies like the United States where they could live free of ethnic discrimination. Zionists instead chose to respond with their own ethnic persecution.
It is worth recalling in this connection that at the turn of the century, Zionism’s similarities to other projects of colonization were not a source of embarrassment or shame for most of the movement’s adherents; indeed, they often saw them as a selling point. Zionist leaders studied and sought to learn from the experience of European colonial-settlement enterprises in places like Algeria, Rhodesia, and Kenya, and many imagined their own endeavor as similar in certain ways. Moreover, the Zionist movement readily used such terms as “colony,” “colonial,” and “colonization” to refer to its activities; thus, for example, the original name of its financial arm was the Jewish Colonial Trust. It was only later, after the First World War, that colonialism came to have strongly pejorative connotations for many Europeans. As a consequence the Zionist movement sought to dissociate itself from other European projects of colonization and settlement, began to stress the uniqueness and noncolonial character of its mission and methods, and stopped using such terms, at least in languages other than Hebrew.
Zachary Lockman, Comrades and Enemies: Arab and Jewish Workers in Palestine, 1906-1948 (University of California Press, 1996) 21-57.
Why did you respond to a question yet refuse to answer the question?
of their own government
Dingdingding and there we have it, antisemitism by calling all Jews zionist.
What?
You’re not going to get far using a definition of Zionism that practically vanished after WII and the founding of Israel, least of all in the current climate. Simply not the opportune moment.
Also already back then there were Zionists who saw it as an explicitly settler-colonial project.
Because the calculation has been made, he will lose more votes from people who support Israel than people who support Palestine because the first ones don’t mind the alternative which will support Israel even more and the second ones will be in deep shit if Trump gets elected so they have no choice.
Are we always going to be prisoners to these types of choices?
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No, you could also elect a dictator like China or Russia did.
That’s what they’re thinking at any rate. Unfortunately in Pennsylvania it doesn’t seem to have been a campaign issue at all for the Pro Palestinian congresswoman and the Arab American demographics in the rust are what got Biden over the line there last time. There’s a serious question as to whether the rust belt is now in play again because of this.
There’s almost 6 million reasons why.
The man is from an era long past, when Israel was the USA’s fault and responsibility, and when it’s presence was necessary to defend against other world powers.
Because certain closely knit ethnicity has significant power and wealth in US economy, so neither Republicans or Democrats want to fuck with that setup?
I wouldn’t say ethnic group.
To be more specific, the lobby group, AIPAC, has immense political power.
Black people?
Why did he build the pier for aid?
To give the appearance of caring while not actually trying to improve the situation
Well, true. Pretty much everything he’s done pro Palestine has been 99% performative. But my point was that it’s bizarre to claim that Israel is not starving Palestinians while also building a pier because aid (including food) isn’t getting rhrough
Several of the ships sent have been doing similar operations to the region for over a decade, so it probably wasn’t a difficult move to make.
My point was that it shows he clearly understands that aid, mainly food, wasn’t getting through. He’s a liar
And mine was that he hasn’t done much in general about the situation. I like the pier and airdrops as concepts but I don’t think they were impactful to the scale of what we could accomplish if we really tried.
If he really wanted change he would pressure Israel. The US is the sole reason this situation hasn’t ever resolved
Maybe he will change the function of the pier to “more efficient delivery of military aid to the israeli stormtroopers in Gaza.” Those tank shells blowing up tents aren’t gonna refill themselves.
Those get delivered to Israel thou
Conveniently we call weapons for Genocide “Aid packages” too.
Id trust the people on the streets there before any out of touch government second guesser
Yeah, but in typical c-suite fashion they (e.g., Biden in this case) listen but don’t hear or care what the people who are actually in the shit of it all think/say because agendas.
Says the guy who literally built a fucking pier to delivery food because Israel won’t let trucks go through on the road.
To all those people who keep saying that in order to not have Trump back in 2025, everyone must suck it up and vote Biden, this is why that just can’t happen.
Sure Trump is bad in many ways but Biden’s insistence on helping Netenyahu no matter what will lose him the election.
I’m not making a case for Trump, btw. Both things can be bad at the same time. For people who are seeing Gazans die for no reason, Biden cannot come back into office again. Does that mean we want Trump? Of course not, and that’s why voting for anyone else makes sense.
If voting for anyone else means you’re voting for Trump, so be it!
People who get anxious at criticism of Biden should dedicate their energy to pressure the US government to grow some brain cells and stop behaving like lunatics, not at berating everyone who expresses angst at their complicity with genocide.
Democratic governments aren’t some force of nature that will do as they please no matter the consequences. You, as their constituents, can signal to them that their actions may make them lose the next election. If you want young people to vote for Biden, what’s more likely to do the trick, to endlessly argue with the few of them you’ll find on Lemmy, or to have Biden stop ruining his own image for no gain?
Absolutely do not vote for Trump, that’s like voting for MORE genocide. Vote for a third party and focus the fight for change outside/beyond the electoral system.
Voting for a third party, especially if you are in a key swing state, is a bad idea. If you are a registered democrat you’ll have to vote democrat to keep Biden.
I’m not American so I don’t get a vote either way. But there’s no way I’d ever vote Democrat or Republican. Both parties are absolutely irredeemably evil, I would rather die than put my support behind either of them.
Do you think people love their candidates? They are voting for lesser of the 2 evils. If you vote 3rd party if you just wasting your vote, so you could at least try to stop the other from winning. It’s basically what people are doing.
Do you think I don’t understand what tactical voting is? I understand everything that you have written but I still believe that if you vote for either Trump or Biden that you are complicit in genocide.
Well, that’s your opinion and you are entitled to believe in it.
That’s just not true. You do not have to vote with your party, you do not have to vote for every position on the ballot, and you do not have to vote at all if you do not want to.
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Voting third party in a swing state is an amazing idea. It shows that they will lose voters if they ignore their voterbase.
Of course. And that’s how we got Trump elected because people didn’t like Hilary, especially in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
People already showed that they don’t want Biden during the primaries. Biden could lose Michigan without Arab-American support, which is evident based on the primary results, but he is still actively trying to lose the election.
So, should we vote 3rd party and make Biden lose votes to teach him a lesson or just vote for Biden to keep Trump out? Neither of the 2 options are ideal but that’s what we have right now.
Same applies for a Trump supporter. You don’t want to vote for a Felon and you rather let Biden win?
Our election system is outdated and does not represent the needs or wants of the people. We need to have more than 2 viable candidates as options but 70 year olds won’t change anything so that they be President when they turn 80. Hopefully someday they make some changes to the election system.
They will never make changes to the system that keeps them in power. Only we can do that, and we can only do it outside of the polling booth. We will never be able to vote for a good choice, only the lesser of two evils. So I vote that we destroy both evils completely and make room for good.
Yeah, they love their power. Pretty evident when they serve until they die and stop younger people from getting an opportunity.
It’s good to see you finally being openly honest with your wish to fuck up America.
Heads up: your little group of accelerationists don’t represent the Democratic voter base, by the way. You have already been counted out demographically as they know that every four years there will be people that will buy into conservative propaganda and not vote.
Just like what’s happening here.
Dude, you cannot just go around calling people you disagree with terrorists. Not voting for Biden for one time is not Accelerationism.
“While originally used by the far left, the term has, in a manner strongly distinguished from original accelerationist theorists, been used by right-wing extremists.”
Unless your boy is a conservative posing as a left wing propagandist, I’m not accusing anyone of being a “terrorist.“
What you’re all doing though, is your very best to ensure this country collapses under Trump. And you’re all insisting everyone not vote for the one person with the chance to keep him from overthrowing America over a single issue you didnt even give a shit about less than a year ago…
That means….
A. That’s your opinion. Nobody here has said they want the country to collapse. Accusing them of accelerationism is unfounded at best.
B. Left wing violent accelerationism very much exists in extreme anarchist movements. Not sure why wiki ignored that. But the number of non violent accelerationists is incredibly small. As an ideology it quickly moves people along into violence as the only way to truly move faster.
C. It would be entirely inside their ideology for a conservative accelerationist to depress the vote by any means. They want the democracy gone.
So, again. You do not get to accuse people of being terrorists or political extremists just because they won’t vote for your fearless leader. It’s ridiculous, self serving, and bad faith in a democracy.
Voting for Biden now is taking the brakes off a car heading towards a cliff.
The Democrats will never ever change course from becoming an extreme right wing party. Actually it’s too late.
Democrats are on board with Genocide and their immigration policy is at Trump levels. There is nothing to gain anymore with Biden winning.
And voting for Trump is what exactly? Because that is what you are accomplishing with your propaganda here. You’re getting Trump elected.
And everyone knows when that happens, you will disappear from here and resurface as a victim like the rest of the far left.
Every four years…
Not sure why you thinking about voting for Trump now.
Yeah if people are angry at Biden for this shit, they’ll for sure be angry with trump because he wants them all killed too along with a litany of other shit that is clearly bad for America and the rest of the world. Voting for trump because you’re mad at Biden’s actions is like chopping your whole arm off because a finger got infected.
Not how US Elections work. Only the winner writes the laws, if you want election reform then vote Dem. If you want Trump, don’t vote dem. Those are the only two options, voting third party does nothing to help. The cumulative sum of all EC Votes given to third party candidates in the USA for 47 years is 0, and we’re risking a lot by not firmly establishing DNC leadership as the lesser evil.
I’m not American, but there’s no fucking way I’d ever vote for a candidate that supported genocide, even if the second most popular candidate is someone who supports double genocide.
Is this a troll comment or do you actually believe this shit? “Double Genocide?”
I’d ask you the same but I already know the answer
Got it, you’re a troll.
No. Biden must be worthy of the office on his own merits. Or else this voting thing is useless. the people cannot hold their officials accountable if they must vote for them. That’s just an oligarchy with extra steps.
No. You have a responsibility to help the people that you can. Doing nothing while a worse person takes office is the same as you advocating for harm, directly.
And we can help people by pressuring Biden.
Trump is leading in the majority of polls, you’re not going to be able to pressure anybody when he wins.
That’s irrelevant. Trump is not the President. Pressuring him will do us no good.
So who’s worthy of the office that has a chance to win in November then?
Let’s see you name someone.
It’s easy to suggest people not vote- but let’s see you offer up a candidate in Biden’s stead since you hate him so much.
It’s entirely possible to leave the field blank.
Nope. Name someone. Because leaving the field blank doesn’t negate an election. Someone is still going to be president.
Name someone.
Mr. Blank Field
“Just don’t vote”
“Idk, sounds kind of fascist to me, bro”
How the fuck is it fascism to use a feature of a democracy? You’ve gone completely off the cliff.
Trump will be actively worse than Biden because he would bring the worst Israeli policies HERE.
Illegal invasion of Lebanon? Yeah, Trump wants that for Mexico.
So, yeah, that’s what you’re voting for if you don’t vote Biden.
