Moldy Monday continues.
🥺👉👈
Yup
The “”“alpha male’s”“” masculinity is so fragile, they threw a conniption when seeing a picture of a fit woman.
I have a personal hypothesis that self-proclaimed alpha [males] may feel the same gender dysphoria that trans folk do, only it is the sensation that they present less masculine than they actually do, so in their effort to attaining a little bit of machismo they go way overboard.
It’s similar I think to the way Donald Trump can be President of the United States, and still feel fragile and unworthy.
Lol, so if I’m hearing you right, people who yap endlessly about “being alpha” are “beta to alpha trans”?
I do think there is some element of gender disillusionment if not dysphoria in very insecure men. I don’t think calling them some stage of trans has the right implications though. They are men that want to stay men. But their internal views of men are constantly challenged by their culture and environment.
Nothing says women can’t have muscular bodies or else they must be men or being a woman wrong in some way. But that dissonance obviously irritates the type of guy that unironically wants to be an alpha gigachad. So they impose their own standards on others, unknowingly outing their insecurities.
If I’m being really honest though even if I thought all of that was likely, it’s way more likely that people on the Internet just love to start flame wars about anything if they’re bored enough. Especially when the target is a woman.
I think an argument could be made that since gender is a social construct anyways, the idea of “alpha”, “beta”, and “sigma” males are different genders.
I’ll just copy-paste what I said last time:
The idea that gender is entirely socially constructed is easily the greatest misconception about gender that gets repeated time and again – almost always by cis people, who never think too much about it because they’ve never had to reconsider their own gender.
Gender roles and gender stereotypes really are socially constructed, like the idea that some clothes are feminine and others are masculine, just to name one example. Gender identity, however, is not. If that was true, like the previous commenter was saying, conversion therapy for trans people would work, when it’s been shown it absolutely doesn’t. Gender dysphoria isn’t a social construct either. Many trans people see their own lives improve considerably after taking HRT (hormone therapy) and having gender-affirming surgeries – how can that be explained socially? Also, we know there is a genetic component to being trans as well, because of twin studies. All of which shows there really is a biological component to gender – just not in the “gender = genitals” way that transphobes think.
Your quote reminds me of one of the biggest misconceptions about Judith Butler’s work who wrote so much about gender…
People constantly misquote them and say that Butler wrote that “gender is a performance” and assume that Butler meant that gender is fake.
What Butler Butler actually wrote is that “gender is performative”, ie. it involves a performance that communicates our gender identity to others without the performance being the end-all-be-all of gender.
I’m gonna guess you get push-back on this, depending on how you’ve phrased it before, because saying gender is not a construct is a strong/radical statement in the context of theory.
I imagine your point is that, for an individual, gender is not some arbitrary choice. It is very real. I agree. That is consistent with the idea of finding oneself on a dynamic gender spectra that is collectively defined; i.e., a social construct.
The people who try to deny an individual’s gender, who they are, by using social construct as a synonym for “not real,” do not understand the term and, more importantly, will always find some other reason to do so until they learn to be better people. That is, the term itself is not to blame.
saying gender is not a construct is a strong/radical statement in the context of theory
To be clear, I’m saying gender identity isn’t a social construct (gender roles definitely are). And that’s hardly a radical statement given that there is a genetic factor to being trans, as evidenced by e.g. twin studies like this one which found a much higher amount of cases where both twins are trans among identical twins (who have the same genetic code) than non-identical twins. Also, like I mentioned before, a lot of trans people feel considerable relief to their own gender dysphoria upon seeking hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries, which is quite hard to explain on a social basis.
Why does gender identity being a social construct mean conversation therapy would work? I don’t follow the logic behind that assertion.
I see no reason why you can’t be biologically predisposed to identify as things that are socially constructed.
The rationale that many people follow is that if gender is socially constructed, it can be socially changed as well (through conversion therapy) to make your kid align with their assigned gender at birth, which doesn’t work in reality.
hey! the idea that gender is entirely socially constructed is also advanced by agender enbys like young me who simply never experienced a feeling of gender in their lives, and thus agreed with fellow enby Judith Butler that gender is a funny silly game we play for no reason. do not go around presuming those people are cisgender or that everyone biologically feels gender like you do
I can see why this idea would seem appealing to agender people. But that’s taking one’s personal case and turning it into a statement about gender as a whole. Gender having a biological component isn’t at odds with agender or NB people, but claiming gender is socially constructed is indeed problematic, like I said before.
That’s toxic masculinity in a nutshell. See also the author of The Game describing sex in the most mechanical terms - coming reeeal close to acknowledging he does not actually desire women sexually, he’s just conditioned to see them as a goal.
This is an understatement. History tells many tales that have passed through the ages that men in this instance have still not learned.
I’m pretty sure it’s dysmorphia rather than dysphoria. Dysphoria is rooted in an accurate picture of yourself and dysmorphia in an inaccurate one. If a guy starts going to the gym because the idea of not being able to bridal carry his girlfriend makes him feel unmanly, I’d agree that’s some flavor of gender dysphoria. On the other hand, someone like the liver king thinking he still doesn’t have enough muscle is definitely body dysmorphia.
But I’d agree that (similar to dysphoria) the so-called alphas often have dysmorphia of more than just the body - they worry they come across unmanly in all ways of their presentation, regardless of how much “masculine energy” they’re already putting out.
Yeah this is a favorite pet theory of mine as well, partly because I like imagining guys like Andrew Tate protesting being labeled “trans alpha” or whatever, but also because it’s just a fact that many cis people experience a form of gender dysphoria and commonly seek hormone therapy for it at early ages.
I’ve found that comparison usually clicks with uninitiated cis people immediately, even when they’ve only heard othering and alarmist narratives up to that point.
What part of this great picture got them scared?
I thought it was a little unsettling that their legs appear to be on backwards.
I guess, because its very hard for biological women to get abs like that. The muscles are just different. Not impossible, but way, way harder then for men and therefore quite rare.
And we all know, its very scary for bigots to even look at trans people. They might have to wash their eyes with soap now.
just wanna add that it is easier to get them with testosterone. i think it makes sense to make that distinction here since there are literal cis women body builder who take it as performance enhancing drugs.
Interesting. I wasn’t sure if it gets harder for trans women, when they are on estrogen. Do they loose the abs?
There is absolutely some muscle loss when on hrt. A study suggests transfems are comparable to cis women after about 2 years on hormones. Dunno if transfems have an easier time having visible abs, though.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref
depends on the order. if you build abs on testosterone (t) then go on estrogen (e) then you just can with relatively easily upkeep them. if you went on e before working out, its just as hard as for cis women. so hardcore cis women body builder go on t for a short time (some weeks) to get big muscles easier before retuning to e.
I’m gonna ask for t for totally cis reasons now. I’m definitely a body builder and absolutely not an 🥚.
So, it’s not exactly easily available for workout purposes, but, much like antibiotics, aquarium and fish farm suppliers are not bound by the normal laws of pharmaceuticals but are bound by food safety to make sure the stuff is pure and uncontaminated.
(source: I have family who work in fish farming)
I think it’s less that the muscles are different, and more about body fat percentage and maybe distribution. You could have the strongest core in the world, but if there’s a layer of fat on top of your abs, they won’t have this visible definition.
Also… Really rare to have boobs that big AND such low body fat, but all sorts of women get implants.
I thought it was just regular old sexism; woman getting stronk has the men with fragile egos feeling scared.
Could you clarify for a sec what you actually mean by “biological women”?
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The simple fact that you don’t know people’s genetic material, maybe. Just use “cis women“ if you want to talk about cis women and avoid heavily transphobic wording. Gender isn’t related to (assumed) chromosomes
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The first comment used “women” which is a gender identity
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so, basically you have the right to tell what’s transphobic or not (you’re saying “innocent” here, that’s a judgement), but me, a trans person, have to lick any boots or be a nazi, just by asking for clarification about a wording? Yeah sure.
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xx chromosomes is not the best predictor here, cis woman hormone levels would be closer. see de la chapelle
What do you mean by biological women?
I interpreted “biological” in this context to refer to women who’ve been impacted by the difference i hormones, i.e., a cis woman with average amounts of estrogen / testosterone would qualify, as would a trans woman who has been on estrogen for a couple years. Sort of a “people for whom the following statement is relevant” kind of an adjective.
In future I’d advise using the term cis woman instead of biological woman because biological woman has a history of being used as a transphobic term by TERFs to delegitimise trans people, especially in the UK.
Yeah, I wasn’t sure about how to differentiate it. English is not my natural language.
I disagree about using “cis” in this context though. I wasn’t sure how much of the effects are hormonal and if it is the same for trans men. And its also true for non binary and genderfluid persons. So cis seemed to exclude many.
I got curious and looked into it and there were some helpful comments too. It turns out it’s mostly about the estrogen. So this means cis women, xx-chomosome non binary and gender fluid people (as long as they are not substituting hormons), trans women on estrogen and trans men who do not substitute testosterone.
So that would mean instead of “biological women” it would be “hormonal female” I guess, or what is the correct for that?
sweaty 6 pack made their pants tight, and monkey brain confused as only men should have 6 pack abs…ergo they may have caught the gay
If the West falling means we get more fit women with abs, good. Let it all crash down.
I don’t find abs in women attractive. But if women want to have them, and others want to admire them, who am I to stop them?
If more people had this attitude towards harmless things that don’t suit their tastes we’d live in a far less hostile world. Thanks for being a decent person!
drooling, sweating, crying, moaning, throwing up, flying, levitating, spinning, turning inside out, achieving enlightenment, …
Why do podcasters hate attractive women
Because the woman makes an effort to take care of herself and it makes them feel shitty about being lazy.
Some guys feel emasculated when they can’t make a beautiful woman like them. So the only way they can feel like they’ve taken some power back is to belittle and talk down beautiful women.
Because they are afraid she’d absolutely dominate them? Freaking AlPHa MalEs.
gender
Fellas, is it gay to think women are hot?
Yup, reinforces my love for women.
If this is the fall, I am ready for the fall.
Falling in love, maybe.
Love both the usernames here
What is so crazy is that a lot of these folks look up to Sparta because of its dedication to physical conditioning. But of the people that traveled to Sparta we know that they wrote of watching the women of Sparta exercise because they were known to be strong, fast, and beautiful because of their exercise and physical conditioning was expected of them even as slave owning elites.
This person should be lauded for their dedication to conditioning and feared for their ability to Kegel a steel girder asunder. And they probably don’t even own one slave outright so it is even that more amazing.
Spartan men where also known to be regularly fucking each other. It was seen as a way of bonding between men when training.
You fight harder for the man next to you when he gives good dick.
i’m a gay man but that’s hot as fuck
I’m a bi/pan woman and yes, that is an objective truth.
Because it looks manly.
It’s like when they show a man with perfectly round manboobs. Something primal in me would say “I’d motorboard those!”
Why are muscles manly?
Testosterone. I mean as a straight guy I love strong women but like, there is definitely a correlation between testosterone and muscle mass.
She has an absolutely statue-esque physique. These chuds are so fragile. This intimidates them.
I miss being fit. Muscle mommies are underrated. All the endorphins. First thing I’m going to do off a grad student salary is get a personal trainer. Fitness makes me feel normal and happy. I lost my six pack here, foo.
Muscle mommies are underrated.
Oh I don’t know about that. We worship you.
More muscle mommies please.
Edit: realized this is a lgbtq group… I’m a straight dude and love this pic.
* Increased demographic of physically fit people *
‘Servies: REEEEE
