Please don’t. Just keep providing security updates for an extended time and don’t make Win 10 worse with these ‘features’ that are keeping people away from Win 11.
But muh platform growth!?!?! It just needs more AI, that’ll get the people upgrading
Nobody wants more AI.
From what I’ve seen, pretty much everyone from techies to the tech illiterate HATES AI Implementations. Yet corporations keep trying to shovel it down our throats. When are they going to admit no one wants this?
They are shoveling it down our throats because the corporations want it. The more they can get it to do without having to pay us poors, the more money they can keep in their pockets. AI has to mine data to learn, so they are trying to put it everywhere to learn. On your OS like copilot doesn’t just learn what you type in on a specific site, it learns EVERYTHING you type, everywhere. Then later, Microsoft doesn’t need to pay people writing code for them, doesn’t need to pay customer service reps. Then they can sell either copilot or its learned data to other companies. WE ARE NOT THE CUSTOMERS, WE ARE THE PRODUCT.
ANYHOOO, I have no idea how AI works, I am talking out my ass, but this is my tinfoil hat rant.
I mean u missed a couple steps but u got the gist of it.
That’s not how AI learns.
Yep the few people that say “with ai my job has improved” are the people that were shit at their job. Like a dude was so happy on linkedin about how great it is to have chatgpt do the analysis of some csv, it would have been soooo difficult with a spreadsheet…
I have copilot because my company is ms partner and we have all the GitHub stuff and whatnot. It’s only useful when creating mock tests and it creates values for variables. Stuff that before I was doing semi manually using a library to create the values during the test. Otherwise the suggestions are plain wrong or so convoluted (and I wouldn’t know if they are right because I don’t understand what’s happening) that I would never allow it in the codebase, it probably took some l337code/codegolf challenge as an example…
I think it’s obvious. They paid a whole lot of money, it turned out not as life changing as they thought and definitely not as good so they are trying to make us hooked to get back on the money
I think when you say “Hates AI” you mean “Hates ChatGPT”
“AI” itself has a lot of awesome uses, ML models with DLSS, robots that can maneuver over different terrain, image generation, audio transcription, etc.
Even with LLMs, I’m fine with them as long as I was the one that was able to pick and choose the model as well as the software to use to run it.
I’m already hallucinating
That’s the point, make wi does 10 worse so people will update
But W10 likely won’t ever get the “feature” of OCRing your entire workspace and serializing the results to plaintext.
Who knows, maybe it will
Nah. That would require them to retroactively change the hardware requirements for the OS, which they’re simply not going to do.
Just switch to Linux, problem solved.
Sure, will you call the it admin where I work and tell him I’m switching?
I want to switch to Linux just as much as you, but at work I have literally zero influence over this. Private OS choice and enterprise / corporate are very different things, and businesses refusing to switch away from Windows is a very big reason why Microsoft’s behaviour lately is a big deal.
OK, so what are you running at home?
I… don’t have a computer at home?
Jesus, have we gone full circle already? There are people with no real computer at home again?
I work with computers and clouds all day. I don’t really want to spend more time on it.
I respect that and I wish I could say the same. Sadly most of my hobbies and interests are computer based so I pretty much have to.
I haven’t had a computer in over a decade. I’m not a luddite, I just haven’t had a need for one since I got a smart phone.
That’s pretty much exactly what I meant with my comment. Not having proper computers at home because they’re replaced by smartphones.
Some problems:
- Stability. For me, Linux on a VM (where I’m using it for development and getting myself familiarized with it) was a stability nightmare. Everything could go wrong after an update (I’m looking at you, Ubuntu 24.04), or even a restart, with no easy way to recover.
- Lack of an easy recovery. On Windows, you can recover your OS from a faultry update easily. If a bit more things have gone wrong, just use the installer, to resurrect your own installation. On Linux, you’re on your own, and while sometimes it’s an easy fix, other times you’re better off reinstalling your OS, leading you to have to restart a lot of other things, which leads to lost time that could have spent better with doing something productive. I’ve wasted hours on recovering data from a Ubuntu 24.04 installation which decided to no longer work in GUI mode, and it ultimately ruined my sleep schedule.
- A lot of settings are hidden deep within config files, which need manual editing, and even worse, googling, which on today’s internet, will likely lead you to an AI generated site filled with garbage. I managed to kill the Linux installation on my Raspberry Pi, which lead me to the previous point of having to reinstall, then having to google even more settings because Raspberry Pi OS had the great idea in the newer versions to “make setup easier”, thus tieing your location settings and your keyboard layout, so I had a Hungarian layout that I had to change, as it’s horrible to use for software development (a lot of commonly used characters are on the Alt Gr layer, and there’s only one Alt Gr key, the other Alt is a dedicated menu key - thanks IBM!).
- Production software and drivers. While Wine is fine for a lot of games, but try to use software with way more sophisticated copy protection schemes. They’re already a pain to use on Windows with the original keys and such, now imagine them on a Windows emulator. Good luck with trying to find VST plugins, which copy protection can be 100% removed!
I’m not a good UX designer, but my first two rules for anything GUI related are:
- If it can be done by a single button press, it should be a single button press on the GUI.
- If it can be an easy configuration, it should be an easy configuration on the GUI.
Linux, alongside with many other projects in the FOSS community, regularly fail both of these, in favor of scripts, which are fine, but have their own issues. Your average user’s average usecase does not involve “very repetitive tasks that are just perfect for some shell scripts”.
Ubuntu is bad, that’s why you are having stability issues. Stop using it.
Also it’s dead easy to recover a Linux installation that has snapshots. Just boot the previous snapshot and go. Also could just use an immutable Linux if not breaking things is your main concern.
Oh yeah, let’s get rid of a checks notes a common and basic feature of an OS, because it’s trendy with some programming languages to set everything to const, because people are not being taught what a debugger is and how to solve these issues with them…
Android and ChromeOS are also immutable, this isn’t just a trend. Stop being insufferable. You don’t have to go to using immutable OSes, using something sensible and stable with snapshotting would work just fine. Like OpenSUSE, or Fedora. Setting snapshots up on Debian I think is more work but still doable.
I think you also want to call me a tourist, mallcore, fashiongoth, fake metal Linux user, for not wanting to join the Arch cult…😉
Also the reason I am recommending you move away from Ubuntu is because of what Canonical has done. I actually was a fan of earlier versions of Ubuntu, even Unity.
Erm, no lol. I don’t even use Arch. I’ve tried it don’t get me wrong, but I don’t understand the fascination with it personally.
Another great ploy by Microsoft to increase Linux adoption.
I just dual booted Linux Mint yesterday when I was reminded of the Win 10 end of service date, and hope to keep with it as my main system.
Linux has come a long way with compatibility since I last tried it ~10 years ago. The fact that Steam games ran perfectly without an evening of configuring settings blew my mind.
Honestly my ability to game has what has kept me out of linux. I trialed PopOs a while ago. I will more than likely switch to it when shit starts getting super annoying.
Gaming on Linux works like a charm now
It’s the multi-player side that is still an issue though. The anticheat software is a pain.
Some multiplayer, but not all. Not that that makes it perfect, but I’ve had minimal issues with multiplayer games. I do not play popular FPS games where anti cheat software is prevalent, so that’s mostly why. I did get Ghost of Tsushima the other day, and that is not compatible for online play, but I think that’s because of Sony.
Personally I’ve had zero issues with multiplayer. But yeah, I’m also not playing the latest twitch shooters and whatever.
This is good news to me since I don’t play twitch shooters.
I’d love to run just Linux, but I don’t want to hassle with dual boot for the couple of competitive shooters I do play.
It sucks because all the other games I play would run without a problem.
It’s already super annoying, and this is what people always say. What’s it going to take in your case?
As of right now? It’ll probably be the drop in support next year. While I have my complaints about Microsoft or any major corporation, for that matter, I’m not the most tech savvy. If Microsoft were to come out and say support is extended, I’ll stick with W10. If they come out with an OS that allowed me to pick and choose what software I wanted and didn’t load it with a shit ton of bloat ware I’d be all over that like shit on velcro. I know these are pipe dreams, and I will most likely move. For now, I will stay the current course until it’s time to jump into the Linux pool and learn how to swim.
I set up a second SSD with Bazzite for dual booting, but it’s not practical for me to use as a daily driver yet. I have a Nvidia GPU, and the drivers just aren’t up to par with their Windows counterparts yet. I could tolerate not having HDR, but also not being able to use 2 monitors with different refresh rates at the same time is killing me.
There’s an update in the works that should fix at least the multi-monitor problem, but still no HDR.
Did you use bazzite with gnome or kde? If I recall correctly, kde plasma 6.1 has support for multi monitor with different refresh
I’m on KDE. It’s quite an odd problem. If I keep them both set to refresh rates below their max, things work fine. However, if both monitors are set to their native refresh rates, the higher refresh rate one goes blank and the lower one starts flickering. If I disable the lower refresh rate monitor, I can set the higher one to it’s max without issue though.
Essentially, when I’m booting into Bazzite, I need to either disable my second monitor or halve my refresh rate or it’s unusable.
I’m on Arch KDE and have and Nvidia 2080ti. I can’t run Wayland. Otherwise I run 3 monitors, 1 an ultra wide at 120hz. I haven’t had any issues.
Interesting. If you have some time, might be worth trying to live USB boot drive of something like fedora desktop kde spin or pop_os cosmic DE just to see if the issue persists for other distros.
I’m theory this should be working now, it’s too bad it isn’t. My desktop is a 4 monitor setup that I’m hoping to move to a fedora based distro as well.
Pop_OS was the first distro I tried before coming to Bazzite. Cosmic sorta worked, but was overall worse… No flickering there, but eventually, a few minutes after logging in, the desktop would freeze. Completely unusable unfortunately. I think Bazzite is fedora based iirc? I don’t know, this is my first attempt at anything beyond putting Ubuntu on old laptops.
Ya bazzite is based on fedora with an immutable file system, so it’s called fedora atomic. Fedora atomic then has variants like bazzite, universal blue etc.
I’m curious if the baseline fedora desktop would have the same issues.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins/kde/download
Multi refresh rate on monitors is a relatively new thing for Linux so bugs are still being ironed out. It sucks that things like these are still not at parity with windows but it’s improving.
Do you know if Nvidia Surround works? I’ve been gaming with a tripple monitor setup and would really like to keep it.
That I don’t know, I only have two monitors and they’re totally different sizes so I haven’t looked into it, sorry!
On Nobara you can just double click .exe files and they open perfectly with winetricks. Absolutely bonkers.
This is with an nvidia card too, 0 issues 0 config needed
That’s really awesome.
Does an old version of Ms office like 2010, 2013 or 2016 work with this?
according to a quick search yes! not able to torrent it rn to verify however.
Do Ubisoft and Blizzard games run? I keep reading praises about Steam but I am more concerned with the other launchers
They usually do if they don’t use kernel level anti cheat. But it’s a bit more complicated than Steam. There are guides online. It’s manageable but it’s not “click play and you’re done” like steam
Afaik Steam has a compatibility layer (Proton) which makes the games run on linux, because the SteamOS which is running on the Steam Deck is Linux. There is Wine you could use for games outside Steam, or you could also try running them throuhg Steam.
Now I have no experience with any of this, but plan to set up Linux dual boot at some point and this is my understanding of things. Somebody better suited will probably chime in with mire details
There’s the new UMU launcher that allows running proton outside of steam. Winehq also works fine by itself, at the end of the day proton is just a fork of wine with a few patches and relies on plenty of shared components like dxvk and vkd3d.
Blizzard games have always had good linux compatibility. Might change now that they’ve bought by microsoft though.
As for ubisoft games they probably run too, launchers are a pita but they do run, you’ll need something like lutris, bottles or heroic launcher to get you started running shit outside of steam, they’re not necessary but they make things simpler.
Stubborn? Windows 11 does not support my older hardware. With no other reason to upgrade, I’m not dropping that kind of cash just for Windows 11.
Regardless, I fully migrated to Linux last year.
Which distro did you choose?
Hopped around for a while and enjoyed Fedora the most. I’m now on Bazzite and love it.
Nice.
TF do they mean stubbornly popular? My windows 10 works perfectly fine and I have absolutely no reason to change anything about it. What is this weird ass ‘if you’re not upgrading, you’re being stubborn’ when there is no reason to and windows 11 looks ass on top of it
Agreed, and I would think XP was the stubbornly popular version. People were on there for years after end of support.
A large amount of people still clinging to Win 10 because the only other (Windows) option is upgrading to 11 doesn’t mean it’s “popular” so much as it means people want 11 even less than they wanted 10.
Umm maybe it’s stubbornly popular because devices running it can’t be updated. My OG surface book (a Microsoft flagship device for awhile) is great hardware, but can’t update to 11. My gaming laptop is even better hardware but doesn’t meet the win11 requirements. Because they are sealed devices. I literally couldn’t if I wanted to.
… said the stubborn person refusing to upgrade.
I was still on Windows 7 until about four months ago when I needed to upgrade to 10 for work. I totally agree and understand your point
For those who are still on Win 7: Firefox (and so Tor Browser) will stop supporting Win 7 soon. Seriously, you better plan to migrate to Linux. Not-so-good privacy issues aside, everyone knows Windows is not very secure/safe/convenient anyway.
said the stubborn person refusing to upgrade.
You sound like you 100% missed their point.
That’s why they want to “update” it. What they really mean is break it…
Bring back support for Windows 7 and Windows 10 will die overnight.
Windows media center alone is worth resurrecting win7 for.
Honestly the experience of Jellyfin, Tvheadend and Kodi is these days nicer than MCE ever was
Does the tv tuner and tv guide work? I tried a few alternatives a few years back and they were garbo. Wmc always just worked.
I get over the air guide in tvheadend, but you can configure it to pull xml based guides off the internet if you prefer.
Windows 10 isn’t popular. It’s just that windows 11 is crap in comparison. Release an OS that isn’t predicated on what’s good for ad revenue and Microsoft’s bottom line and everyone will upgrade.
One of the definitions of “popular” is going to blow your mind.
Well, it’s popular not because of demand but because Win7 is ancient. In the old times there were utilities that copied win2k binaries into a winNT4 install to add features like new directX, I wonder if that is still possible on win7
I have never understood why people still like 7.
I thought it was decent when I last used it, but Win 10 is much better.
7 is fairly ugly and has a lot of missing stuff for 10.
Good god one drive is so fucking invasive in 11
It’s pretty annoying in 10 too. I had a big scratch folder on my desktop and one day it decided to start syncing with one drive after a restart and one of those setup/welcome like screens.
one drive is so fucking invasive in 11
Which one? C? I think you can change it!
Microsoft made a big mistake with Windows 10: it basically works fine.
That’s when an operating system is supposed to do. They make mistakes when they make it worse. Usually, the operating system starts worse and eventually gets tolerable. That happened with Windows 10. Initial versions were far inferior to Windows 7, but now it’s at a pretty good state. Windows 11 is a pile of fucking garbage. There is no compelling feature in Windows 11 that would make anyone want to upgrade. There are compelling reasons not to upgrade, such as advertising, menus that require more clicks to get the same shit done, forced use of Microsoft account, etc.
There’s also the fact that Windows 11 refuses to run unless you have a handful of specific hardware in your computer, such as TPM 2.0, and a relatively modern processor. There is no technical reason for this requirement, it was discovered very early on that if you override the check it will install and run just fine. But Microsoft seems determined to get people to throw away their older but still perfectly good computers.
That is a very big part of why Windows 10 is still so popular. If you have a computer from six or seven years ago that you’ve upgraded once or twice, it’s probably still perfectly good. No reason to throw it away for Windows 11 when you can keep on trucking with Windows 10.
I personally am quite grateful that my computer doesn’t meet the requirements, because that means I won’t be stealth-upgraded like happened with 10.
My wife’s laptop was upgraded during a “maintenance window” one night. Now to downgrade I would have to wipe it clean and reinstall everything and restore backups… Too much hassle and then maybe it will be upgraded again. Bios doesn’t allow disabling tpm
I was at a win 95 launch event for pc sellers back in the msdos era. Microsoft sales pitch was “put windows on the comps you sell and we guarantee your customers will keep coming back for upgrades”. Shit hasn’t changed 30 years later.
Same was said about Windows 7 as people protested the switch to Windows 10. New telemetry, aggressively forced updates, and other factors made Windows 10 a nightmare for many. Yet now, when Windows 11 is even worse, people start thinking of Windows 10 the way they thought of Windows 7.
Essentially, Microsoft can make Windows worse and worse for as long as the previous iteration is better and people got used to it.
That is exactly how I felt back then. Waited as long as possible to switch to 10 from 7 but then got used to it. Honestly I still think 7 was better. But no fucking way I’m switching to 11 with the way things are going at Microsoft.
Usually Microsoft would have 1 good release then 1 release that is shit. Seems like it’ll be straight shit from now on.
That’s what they’ll try to end now with buggy feature bloat shoehorned in.
They just want to make w10 as bad if not worse than w11. Because they want people say: I might as well use w11.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I can enable some TMP in my bios to give me “windows 11 compatibility” but I have no reason to do so. If I could chill on Windows 7 forever I would
Tamper module proof
Better than a Toilet Paper Module.
So they’re ending support but will use the remaining users like test guinea pigs.
Great…
This is called the “RedHat CentOS” strategy
So no change whatsoever then? Ever since it released windows 10 patch testing has been “release to end user and see what the complaints are.”
Well it’s only Windows that’s complaining it can’t install Windows 11 on my Windows 10 laptop. I’m not mothballing perfectly good hardware just because Microsoft is having a tantrum.
Remember to switch to Linux once it reaches end of life so you don’t risk your security
win 11 adoption must be pretty bad if they have to do their new features beta testing on win 10 (which should be on a security updates/show-stopper bugfix only policy by now) instead.
Windows 11 adoption to business customers is really bad. Most of the adoption to 11 has been from people purchasing new home computers and being stuck with 11 (I have two win 11 computers now).
Since the bulk of Microsoft’s revenue comes from business customers, they have a huge impact on decisions.
At this point the only decision Microsoft can make is to write off win 11 as a failue. Resuming feature upgrades to win 10 makes business sense.
Its not that 10 is more popular, its that 10 is less jacked up. Start jacking 10 and we’ll all go back to 7
Start jacking up 10 and we’ll all go to Linux
Millions already have
When I saw yesterday that M$ was doing a new beta for win 10 my first thought was “Well people don’t want to switch to 11 cause of the garbage we keep adding? Let’s see if we can get the same garbage in 10, then they will be willing.”
Willing to what? Adopt a penguin?
Switch to 11
Nope. On second thought, downloading ubuntu 11.10
Not 8?
If you wanna go 8, go ape
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For PC gamers Linux is the only alternative but I don’t expect a major migration. The last ten years have shown that the average gamer is willing to accept a lot of hostile behaviour from companies as long as they are able to keep playing their games. Microtransactions, Loot boxes, kernel level anticheat, and broken buggy releases haven’t killed that industry yet. Windows 11 is just another thing that will be loudly complained about in gamer circles but not much will come of it.
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Honestly, I’ve had less issues gaming on linux than windows… unless your playing a game with anticheat where the devs break shit on major updates (though valve is usually quick and has a patch for proton within a day).
This is it. Everything “just works” on windows. Until that exact same experience is available on Linux it will never take over. And no, I don’t mean “there is an app you can install for a distribution that makes it easy to…”. That is an immediate failure. It needs to be easy to do everything, out of the box, with no additional setup.
I say this as someone that uses windows, Mac, and various flavors of Linux every single day. I want this for Linux, but it isn’t there.
“It works fine if you follow a 10 stage guide filled with terminal commands to configure it properly, which describes commands that are different in your distro.”
Cool.
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Exactly this. I’m comfortable in both windows and Linux. I tried Linux as my daily driver multiple times on my main PC but it was always not worth the effort. I don’t have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS. I put Ubuntu on my laptop and while it worked I was often spending days troubleshooting some bug, either with the touchpad not working or with with the disro itself trying to something as simple as an image preview when selecting pictures to upload to discord or whatever.
I’ve spun up dozens of virtual machines on my server at home and that’s where Linux just works. After I get it configured I’ve almost never needed to touch it again. Until Linux gets the basic user experience as easy as windows then people will stay with windows.
Well yeah Ubuntu is shit. I haven’t had nearly this many problems. I also don’t use the latest hardware which helps immensely.
It’s not just Ubuntu. “Just don’t use modern hardware” is not a solution.
Fedora, Arch, Void, and other distros with newer kernels have less issues with new hardware. By not using the latest hardware I mean hardware that’s been out a year or two. Not stuff that’s ancient. You probably won’t have any issues with the latest CPUs and GPUs on say Arch or Fedora, but it can be an issue for things like WiFi cards or on distros like Debian, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu.
The most regular pc user probably only got a work computer that runs 10 or 11 and they will likely have no choice since most companies don’t support Linux clients. My work actually does which is neat. I would absolutely use Linux at work, if working with Windows wasn’t my job.
Video Games.
Popular usage of PCs does not revolve around gaming.
It does in my house.
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My guy has been living under a stone for the past few years it seems.
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I thought Google announced Chrome OS is dead. Don’t disagree with your other points though. Chrome is fantastic for somebody just needing something to check their email.
Is there a commonly accepted reason why Microsoft makes these big releases so different?
AFAIK macOS has relatively minor changes, in terms of UI/UX, from release to release (look at screenshots of the original OS X vs. the current macOS version). And Linux is entirely dependent on distro, but for me it’s just “has i3wm changed drastically? No? Great!”
My guess is that Windows just does it because they need folks to upgrade, and that’s the only tool they have to force people’s hands…
It’s a direct result of their corporate culture.
MS has different teams competing with each other, and keeping something running well for years won’t get you noticed for a promotion.
You have to do something new to get ahead, preferably more so than the other team working next to you . So that’s what everyone at MS is trying to do.This is why there are multiple Teams apps, multipe Skype apps, multiple current Office versions and multiple Microsoft login portals side by side now.
It’s why Outlook licensing has a different backend than all other Office apps.
It’s why there are several Windows development branches running in parallel, and several different systems handling updates.
It’s why there’s a dozen different overlapping M365 admin portals that keep changing their UI, and settings keep getting moved around between them.It makes absolutely no sense for the end user, but it makes sense inside MS’ internal corporate structure.
